Aye.

Benefit of being a big club - in the salary cap era, I think it is fair enough.

Maybe, maybe not. But a lot is expected from you at elite level including youth development, if you cant do both then you don’t deserve a spot at the top table


There is only one, and will only ever be one option for us to catch up. Produce better players. It is part of the solution for almost all our problems. We would have a better game, more exposure, more fans, more sponsors, we would have a bigger international game. Producing youth is the start of the virtuous cycle towards growth. Without doing it, we cant start.


Every club should be going in with a couple less. Those at the top of the game should be embarrassed by the clubs desperation to avoid their responsibilities to developing the next generation, and those who have failed so massively to get to where they promised they should be should hang their heads.

Come on chief, I know you're a bit on the autistic spectrum when it comes to this issue but even you must have been able to see my post was some what tongue in cheek.

Thankfully, the Franchising committee see things differently to your good self, hence the upgraded licence for the next period.

But we weren't at the elite level. You can't judge second tier clubs by SL standards - the financial gap is massive. Widnes won the Northern Rail Cup in 2009 and switched to development - that wasn't an option for Rovers in 2006. We needed promotion. My current avatar honours the counter argument though.






I agree on the objective, but not that overseas quotas can make any significant contribution to achieving it. Protectionism has its uses - improving competitiveness isn't one of them. It's a top down solution to a bottom up problem.
The clubs can't be trusted to behave altruistically - so instead of being surprised and disappointed give their responsibility, and the associated money to a body set up to nurture young talent. Focus that money onto a smaller number of higher quality Service Area teams at academy level. Employ specialist development coaches, rather than helping out grizzled old pros who've fallen on hard times.
The effect will probably be only marginal, but to me it makes sense.
The objection might be that clubs still won't give kids a chance. But Aussie kids get chances on merit in the NRL, and that League is even more flooded with antipodeans than we are. If they're good enough, they'll get a go.

Yes, ‘thankfully’ the RFL don’t seem too bothered about clubs failing in their responsibilities to youth development and have allowed HKR to rely on overseas players and put out a squad mostly consisting of NRL reserve graders so they can finish mid-table. Thank god for that.

You are now.

Quotas have been shown not to work, HKR are proving that right now. Certain clubs will take any avenue they can to seek a short term advantage even if it means neglecting important parts of creating a sustainable game. Something else needs to be done to force these clubs to see their short-termism and to force them to make a meaningful contribution to the sport.

Aye. I think we're doing okay and are pretty much on schedule regarding developing players at Hull KR. Our 'failure' as you put it is a product of your unrealistic and rather contrived expectations and assessments. IMO.




Yep. Why is this a surprise to anyone?
Better regulation is needed, not appeals to conscience. We're hardly the only club to pursue our own self-interest. A lot might be expected of a club at the elite level - I wouldn't have put following the supposed spirit of the rules or a sense of disinterested self-denial near the top of the list. Again... call me cynical.

Soory to burst your bubble cockle but the difference between Widnes and Rovers is that when we "Earned" promotion we had from October to February to assemble a team that could stave of relegation and guarantee superleague survival. Widnes have been handed promotion and have had from July to February to assemble a team that will not get relegated for three seasons, not exactly the same scenario is it. Just an observation of course o font of all things HKR.

I don't have any qualms over Rovers using the overseas rules to the limit, in fact I believe it has been a shrewd policy by Rovers and will continue to be so under Sandercock’s management, albeit with a shift in emphasis on bringing over younger and less established NRL players. I suggest this is based on two reasons: Firstly, at this point in time it is cost/benefit effective to invest in younger and less established overseas players, and secondly, Rovers youth development systems are only just beginning to pay dividends.
The reason why it is cost/benefit effective to invest in younger and less established overseas players isn’t rocket science. For starters, they are a cheaper option than their counterparts in SL, who are currently demanding inflated contract terms. For me, a more practical reason (coupled with them being cheaper options) is how they come packaged and labelled as NRL trained players.

The emphasis on NRL trained players should not be overlooked, because these players have rec’d quality coaching (many from a very young age), and with higher standards than those in SL; the NRL system instils an ideology of aspiring to be the ‘best of the best’ from a young age – this applies across other sports as well in Oz and was explained to me (in his usual graphic way by Newts) a few years ago. It’s a mentality Antipodeans seem to grow up with. I’m not saying this isn’t the case over here, but when you compare SL with NRL home grown strength and depth, many of the discarded NRL trained players are on a par or better than we have at the moment coming through SL youth systems.
Undoubtedly, this is the strength (and depth) of the NRL; its youth development system is to be aspired to, and the reason why the Aussies have a perpetual conveyor belt of highly rated, well prepared players coming through.

In many respects the knock-on effect of its success can be ‘exploited’ (for want of a better term) because it has created a market (untapped in my opinion) which Rovers are turning to. This market has a (wealth) of ‘NRL trained’ players (circa 19-25) languishing in reserve grade, feeder clubs and in other lower competitions. It makes sense to tap into this pool of talent, and is cost/effective because the club is signing players that have been trained by NRL clubs, albeit discarded by the depth and strength of quality it produces. In other words, Rovers have been spared the expense of investing in these players development.

I know the arguments about how overseas players restrict home grown growth; the pensioner gaffs; they are NRL rejects; and are seen by some pundits as being why SL remains behind the NRL. Yes, in some cases each of these claims has substance; however, the SL competition has improved no ends due to the overseas influence, and would be a far lesser product without their contribution. Take a look at Rovers emerging youth and the established British players who are quick to point out the influence of Rovers overseas players. It’s this ‘invisible’ effect which needs to be factored into the debate. I also think there has been a change in mindset by SL clubs to move away from pinning short term success on marquee signings.

On Rovers continued heavy reliance on overseas players; in many respects Hudge spelled it out clearly when he stated at the FF last month, recruitment of home grown players is an expensive option (inflated contract demands etc.,), and so is investment in developing players through youth systems – the gamble factor of producing a return of 0-5 players per annum out of 30-40 youngsters. He quoted how Leeds and Saints invest around half a million per annum in youth development.
As far as I know, Rovers touched on less than half that amount. That is a massive difference and gulf to overcome in financial terms alone, and Rovers have struggled with it since day one (and for the most part, little return to show for it). This point has been a major factor in Rovers reliance on overseas players since entering SL, but the investment in the present crop of reserve grade players could well see Rovers reducing the overseas contingent in the future, although I am in favour of finding a blend. For me, I don't care if Sandercock fills up the overseas lists up with players discarded by the NRL, as long as they bring added value to the squad and the developing youth systems.
In the meantime, we cannot escape the fact the pool of 'discarded' NRL trained players is surprisingly a cheaper option, and I believe will become an option other SL clubs will take up (if not already) over the next few years. Sandercock will know this and he will use his knowledge of the NRL youth development systems to sift out potential recruitment targets for Rovers overseas lists in the future.

people seem to forget hull had the cherrypick of all youngsters for over a decade with us not having reserves or academy for part of that time if we did produce any players they were snapped up striaght away ie jon wilkin even paul fletcher had a lot of chances to go play at a higher level but stayed loyal im quite happy with the way our youth is coming through at the moment and no matter what happens the aussies will still be hammering us in 20 years time so what does it matter

11 out of 25+
Maths and/or english not your strong point then Smokey?

Interesting. I'd heard '6-figure sum' for Rovers, consistent with that.
What i'd be curious about is what would happen if every body started spending half a million. Would the same talent just be spread around the league (ie Leeds and Saints investment is in the acquisition more than the development of players) or would every club have the likes of Jones-Bishop, Foster, Lomax and Gaskell coming through the ranks year after year.




Tbf, and much as it pains me to almost take his side

, I guess he means matchday squad. Or 'team' to you and me

HKR planning on putting out a 25 man matchday squad? Its an interesting approach to covering up for their mediocrity and im not sure they will get away with it.

11 out of 17?

Maths and/or english not your strong point then?

I'm going to stop using The Gregorian calender to mark the passing of the years, a more accurate measure is to wait for SmokeyTA to turn up on an annual basis to comment on our recruitment.

Would you really class two player coming through the HKR system to HKR regular in 5 years on schedule? If so its the least ambitious schedule possible. Hell I would have expected a better return from Crusaders than that. I doubt you would be so relaxed about it if a club like Hull FC for instance had found a loophole in the Salary Cap which allowed them to spend huge amounts of extra money which whilst not explicitly against the rules was totally against the reasons the SC existed or they encouraged their players to challenge the legality of the SC in an effort to allow them to spend more. Which in principle would be the same as what HKR and other clubs are doing in regards to the quota.

You were the one who failed to stipulate matchday or full squad.
Maybe you can give that a shot next time.

Its not my fault you made an assumption in your attempt to be a smart and it turned out to be wrong. You could have considered whether or not 11 would be the majority of a squad before jumping in with both feet.

Maybe you can give that a shot next time.

Out of morbid curiosity, which two are you granting us as 'real' in your munificence? 'HKR regular' means you don't want to give us Frankie Mariano, I assume. So that must mean you count Josh Hodgson, which I wouldn't, but fair enough. Who is the other?




Clubs do exploit loopholes in the salary cap - that is hardly a secret. As long as they aren't flat out cheating, I can accept it easily enough. If it was looser still, I'd direct my disappointment at the RFL, rather than Wigan, Warrington or whoever else decided to spend £3m a year or whatever. If they could afford to spend that kind of money via a loophole, I can't imagine them stinting themselves.

mild rover, assuming my maths are correct (even with 'smokeys' abacus) the amount of money I am aware Rovers have invested in youth development is between £200,000-£250,000pa (well, at least over the past 3 years). These are six-figure sums?

Well, the two who played for the HKR academy then became first team regulars, Taylor and Welham
And what if they couldn’t? what if legal protections meant for something completely different meant the RFL weren’t able to do this? What If one of those clubs encouraged a player of theirs to sue for restraint of trade should any punishment from the RFL be forthcoming? What if HKR finished 9th whilst the club who deliberately did this finished 8th? Would you find said club completely blameless in that scenario? Do you think it is the clubs right to exploit any loopholes they can find in any way they wish?

Yep and quite impressive ones, IMO, given the financial challenges the board face.

We need to produce (and retain!) a homegrown core to take the next step. Watts, Cox and Taylor [ucould[/u provide the foundation of a decent pack. [uIf[/u a few of our backs can follow in Welham's steps - Sheriff, Salter, Scott maybe - we could really climb the ladder.

I'm pretty optimistic.

Not Liam Watts, who we signed as a 16-year old and qualifies as club trained under every possible interpretation of the rules?




It's the law then, innit? Nowt you can do. I think the loss of the cap would be pretty disasterous (a fear you don't share, I know), because the rich clubs [uwould[/u pursue their own self-interest at the expense of the wider sport. Disappointment implies surprise - I would be disappointed if SL scrapped the cap, leaky and imperfect as it is. If Wigan et al then took advantage, it'd be a bit cack, but entirely unsurprising.

mild rover, I am more than optimistic especially if I add other reserve graders who are above average like Green, Ollett, Bell, Beaumont, Round, Lee and Bethersall. These are exciting and unprecedented times for Rovers in this current era. The product of a concerted effort to develop youth through micro-management. It will be interesting to see how Sandercock manages these players bearing in mind his reputation in this field of youth development.