Retracted!

Proof now please.

Only started once there in his 26 SL games , think he may have played there more if not been injured with Halls loss of form

Actually comparing the 2 they have a very similar career record, although Welham is 3 years older

Welham 42 games 19 tries (SL)
Briscoe 26 Games 13 Tries (SL)

I have actual mp3 recordings of the booing, it was louder than that witnessed for Cookie's 1st conversion attempt in the 6-42 game!

Naturally, due to copyright reasons, I can't post them on here.

Right, now that's sorted, I'm off to sleep with my sister.

Whats assists like for them both Hutch? it quite hard comparing them really with Brisc not a regular centre.

But if he does become one, and him and fox play to there ability then i know i wouldnt want to be against there wing at the world cup...

The booing at halftime in Wigan takes some beating.

HALF TIME every friday at KC....

Thanks for that.

Thought Fox played well, did everything that could be expected, took his tries well. Unlucky not to get a penalty for been tackled in the air, shouldnt lose his place next week. I still think Tom Briscoe would have done everything that Fox did in the NZ game but im going to say that arent i?

YES FEED THE FOX AS THEY SAY, WELL THE FOX WAS FED AND EVERYBODY COULD SEE WHAT RESULTED. GET THIS MAN FED AGAINST THE AUSSIES AND MAKE NO MISTAKE ITS KANGAROO PIE!!!!

I agree he may have scored the tries, but he doesn't have the work ethic of foxy yet to take the ball up constantly and make the hard yards at the start of sets, if you disagree i suggest you watch the performances of the 2 again in the previous england games.

I do believe he will be a top, top centre, but if he is going to play wing he needs to add this to his game imho

Way hey! I see one of you has remembered the log in.

I think he does have the work ethic if he didnt get pushed out of the way all of the time. The FC fans that have seen Briscoe play for the last 2 seasons class his skooting as a real strength because of his natural strength. Difficult for you to write that area of Toms game off based on seeing him play twice for England. Back to Fox though so this doesnt turn into a Fox v Briscoe slanging match again.

Finally Mr Smith has picked the right man for the job, its took him a good while but after some silly mistakes it looks like he has seen sense!

Ah, the entire victory against NZ was down to Fox's inclusion then.

Yes, of course lol

Seriously though, picking the right players for the job is a start and Fox is the right man for job, he should have been picked to start in the WC and also for the opening 2 games of the 4 nations.

This, I'm afraid, is nonsense. Briscoe takes the ball up all the time in SL - in fact it's a strength of his.

What happened in the Aussie game was that on a number of occasions he got in position to take the ball up only to be pushed away by one of his team mates. Whether this was a deliberate move by Smith to try and protect him or not I don't know, but he was trying to get involved and being thwarted. All he needs to overcome that is more experience and self confidence.

5 to welham, nil to Brisc although as you say hard to compare

One stat does stick out (if its a true figure) that Welham made 458 tackles last year



thats a high number for a centre to do , although prob down to him being targetted

Not bad for a player who some say is a defensive liability

Well he didnt come 2nd in the missed tackle stats for nothing

Its all about the percentages dear boy

what happens at kc every friday???

nonsense eh? well what happened in the wales and france games then? he hardly ever came in to acting half, in fact in the france game he made only 1 acting half run in 80 minutes (i still have the games on sky+!). Are you suggesting he was playing to orders not to get involved?

As I said I think the kid is going to be a mainstay of the international side for years in his natural position of CENTRE and at a push I might have tried him inside foxy, but at the moment putting all club biases aside if your looking for a top quality WINGER to do the graft wingers do in the modern game I'd pick foxy everytime.

Most sensible FC & KR fans want to see England do well for the good of our game as a whole but the threads and posts ever since Tom Briscoe & Fox were competing for the same wing spot were initially started as an opportunity to have a go back for us Rovers fans having the bragging rights for a long time demonstrated at Chris1953's thread having a go at Fox for not getting the spot ahead of Briscoe for the Aus game.

After the Aus game I made several posts about why (in my opinion) Tom Briscoe can not cut it as an international winger and gave detailed analysis of why I came to my opinion only for bitter FC fans to gob off without providing any counter opinion other than "he did nothing wrong..."

The England coaching team analysed the Aus game and obviously saw similar things to me and chose to play Fox in the Kiwi game and their decision was vindicated by the result and performance in which Fox played his part. People (in particular FC fans) will point to the fact he shot out of the line when the Kiwis scored yet his centre was nowhere to be seen. Even so, poor decision making can be rectified with good coaching/video analysis which is a small achievable task - selecting players at international level is just because they don't knock-on a lot is a flawed and ridiculous idea.

Fox showed his natural winger instincts by showing good judgment in the bounce of the ball for his first try and showed some quick footwork for his second try. He's a round peg in a round hole and is someone who will make the opposition pay if he gets a chance.

His main attribute he brings to the team is his dummy-half runs. The game plan of utilising Fox and Hall for the first two dummy-half scoots generated momentum for the forwards to flood up the middle channel as the Kiwis were constantly on the back foot - this is the key thing I previously pointed out (and was proved right) why Fox should be playing in the team because Tom Briscoe just doesn't have the speed of Fox - especially scooting from the play-the-ball which is far more important than FC fans would digest.

So Fox plays well, Mrs Barista is left frothing at the mouth because her childish database of quotes were redundant, and numerous FC fans backtrack on their slating of Fox and my totally vindicated pre-match prediction because they've been proved wrong. I went a little OTT with the "close the door on your way out Tom" post but I was simply hammering home that should any FC fan come on this board and slate one of our players then they must expect the same in return and not spit their dummies out when it happens.

Don't get me wrong I have absolutely nothing against Tom Briscoe and I hope goes on to be a great player but I think automatically expecting him to be the next England centre for the next 10 years is a little premature - why? people have stated he's "inexperienced" but so are Tomkins (12 SL games) and Eastmond yet they are in the team on merit. Two things going against the kid are; 1) Being developed under a very poor coach in Agar & 2) Being made out to be something he's not by FC fans - much in the same way that Tommy Lee, Graham Horne were because it didn't do them in the long term.

Anyway, let's hope Briscoe goes on to be a great player and England win on Saturday regardless of who's playing for them...

Hell Zod,you been taking the tablets ?


That was a most interesting post.