That was certainly right until recently and still might be.

However, I have seen a couple of [uhints[/u (nothing official), that the 'Rhys Lovegrove dispensation' might have gone universal, giving us a 'club trained while with club' sub-category.

In some ways this makes sense - to be making it harder for young unproven players like Laurence Pearce or George Griffin (maybe Jamie Shaul?) to get a chance, when a lack of talent is being at least partly blamed for needing to cut to 12 SL clubs would be a bit daft.

But it would certainly be a big shift, as the restrictive approach was meant in large part to focus clubs' minds on their own academies. If clubs can routinely get 19 or 20 year olds in from outside the club or even country to make up their club-trained numbers, that'd be more... flexible. A tacit admission perhaps that the non-fed rule was predicated on inaccurate assumptions about how much domestic talent was going to waste, but without having to say it openly.

Hepi spent a few years in the UK when he was a youngster, I taught him at David Lister when he was 13, not sure if that helps or not?

Looked a cracking player even at that age.

Hepi joined us at the start of last season and is only just 20. He'll meet the criteria for club-trained, irrespective of any possible changes, I'm pretty sure.

It doesn't appear to have helped Tyla a whole lot...

'Club Trained' if a player has or will have 3 full seasons prior to turning 21. (club trained sometimes referred to as homegrown.)

'Club Trained Whilst There' status if you join prior to age 21 but don't get the 3 years in.

Both 'club trained' & 'club trained whilst there' count in respect of the requirement for 8 club trained players in the 25 man squad.

Josh Hodgson is 'club trained whilst there' for us as an example. Think he was 20 when he joined us.

Also Rhys Lovegrove who is Australian counts as 'club trained whilst there' as does George Griffin. Both joined the club prior to turning 21 but without the possibility of accumulating 3 years.

Don't know how old Tyla Hepi was when he joined us but he was certainly under 21 and will definitely count as either club trained or club trained whilst there. It really doesn't matter where he was born or where he played his rugby beforehand.

If that is true (I have no reason to doubt you) and I don't have time to check ATM then fair enough and I hold my hands up.
I knew that was the rule for those that signed before the changes but I wasn't aware it had been widened to everyone.

Every time this topic comes up people tell me I am wrong but I promise you I am not.

I have a full definition of what constitutes club trained, federation trained and quota provided by the RFL.

Quote ="Anakin Skywalker"If that is true (I have no reason to doubt you) and I don't have time to check ATM then fair enough and I hold my hands up. I knew that was the rule for those that signed before the changes but I wasn't aware it had been widened to everyone.'" I have just checked... rflmedia.therfl.co.uk/docs/Secti ... 0Rules.pdf And as far as I can see the definition of club-trained, [ihasn't[/i changed - rule B1:12B (a) As I say, I saw it suggested that it maybe had been, but that is this year's version of the operational rules. The RFL still retains discretion to classify a player as club or fed-trained even if a player doesn't strictly qualify. I know Pearce has gone back to Union, but strictly he'd have been non-fed. Although there is something called 'New Talent Pool status'. I guess Shaul will qualify as fed-trained, at least, as his Amateur club is part of the same federation? But, assuming this is only his second season on their books, he'd need a dispensation to remain club-trained. Jacob Miller will have been eligible for under-21 this year, so will, right now, be club-trained. Next year he'll be non-fed though. I lost the will to carry on as far as George Griffin.

Quote ="Anakin Skywalker"If that is true (I have no reason to doubt you) and I don't have time to check ATM then fair enough and I hold my hands up. I knew that was the rule for those that signed before the changes but I wasn't aware it had been widened to everyone.'" I have just checked... rflmedia.therfl.co.uk/docs/Secti ... 0Rules.pdf And as far as I can see the definition of club-trained, [ihasn't[/i changed - rule B1:12B (a) As I say, I saw it suggested that it maybe had been, but that is this year's version of the operational rules. The RFL still retains discretion to classify a player as club or fed-trained even if a player doesn't strictly qualify. I know Pearce has gone back to Union, but strictly he'd have been non-fed. Although there is something called 'New Talent Pool status'. I guess Shaul will qualify as fed-trained, at least, as his Amateur club is part of the same federation? But, assuming this is only his second season on their books, he'd need a dispensation to remain club-trained. Jacob Miller will have been eligible for under-21 this year, so will, right now, be club-trained. Next year he'll be non-fed though. I lost the will to carry on as far as George Griffin.

B1:12B
The following definitions shall apply to Clause B1:12A above:
(a) „Club Trained Player‟: a player who has been on the Club‟s register for any 3 full Seasons before the end of the Season in which he ceases to be eligible by age to play at Under 21 level. For the avoidance of doubt, from the 2010 Season onwards a player must satisfy the requirement to have been on the Club‟s register for 3 full Seasons before being ineligible to play at Under 21 level in order to qualify as a „Club Trained Player‟ and the fact that he may have qualified as a „Club Trained Player‟ in the 2008 and/or 2009 Seasons shall be irrelevant.

This is the key paragraph.
Tyla Hepi doesn't fall into this catagory as he needed to be here 3 years BEFORE he turned 21.
BTW Bob this are not my words but the words of the RFL in their own rules.

I think Hepi will be fine. He was here last year and has only just turned 20. That would make him eligible to play under-21s all next season, if such a thing existed. You just have to be under-21 on the 31st of August prior to the start of the season. eg 31st August 2012 to play in the 2013 season. So it is possible to play at the end of an [iunder[/i-21s season when you've turned 22.
That is the principle they use for the under-19s anyway - rule: C1:6:8
Geek of the Week is going to be hard to call.

Oh I agree he will be fine for now BUT he won't get home grown (I prefer that term as it seems a lot more cuddly

) if we are sticking to the rules as he will have 2 years in and not 3.
You can have geek of the week BTW it's ok

He'll have been with us and eligible for under-21 in 2012, 2013 and 2014 (assuming he stays, of course). I think he'll qualify as club-trained. Not straight forward though, is it?

edit: O/T but in this year's UEFA U-21 tournament in Israel, some of the players were [i23[/i, as they just had to be eligible prior to the start of the qualification process.

I honestly have a headache here.
I can't decide if it's my kids, watching Furious Aardvark and Smokey argue if a blade of grass counts as grounding of the ball or this thread that has caused it.

looks a tough lad, looks like a handfull, think he will do well for you guys

Great prospect and hard as nails (like his Dad was). Sign him up for 2 years before one of the top four decide they want to flash the cash to prevent us keeping him.

Here are the relevant rules as provided by the RFL;

[iAt all times each official squad of 25 players must contain a minimum of 8 'Club trained' players which includes 'Club Trained Whilst There' and no more than 5 quota players or 5 non federation trained players.

A Club Trained Player is one who has been on his current club's register for three full seasons before the end of the season in which he ceases to be eligible by age to play Under 21's.

A Club Trained Whilst There player is one who has spent part of his time but not three full years on his current club's register before the end of the season in which he ceases to be eligible by age to play Under 21's.

A Non Federation Trained player is one who does not meet the definitions of Club Trained (which includes club trained whilst there), Federation Trained or are not working towards either.

Overseas Quota (different to federation trained regulations) the quota status is entirely dependent on the type of passport the player holds. Players who have an EU passport or who carry a passport of a country that is party to an Association Agreement , a Europe Agreement or the Cotonou Agreement (Kolpak) do not count on the overseas quota.
[/i

Immediately prior to the start of this season which was when I requested this information Tyla Hepi was not registered in the first team squad and Hull Kingston Rovers players were classified as follows ;

[iClub Trained; Welham, Cox, Latus, Beaumont, Green.

Club Trained Whilst There; J. Hodgson, Lovegrove, Salter, Griffin.

Federation trained; Eden, Hall, Gleeson, D. Hodgson, Horne, Carlile, Dobson, Withers, O'Hara, Walker, Caro, Brown.

Non- Federation Trained; Burns, Mika, Paea, Paterson, Tuimavave.

Quota; Dobson, Burns.

(Withers & O'Hara special dispensation, Dobson exempt from non fed trained due to having signed a professional RL contract with a British club prior to February 2008 when the non fed rulings were introduced). The list of names in a 25 man squad can change during the season with the prior approval of the RFL but must still conform to the above regulations. Each clubs 25 man squad may and in most cases does differ to the top 25 in terms of salary cap.[/i

As provided by the RFL. I also have definitions & rules regarding loan players, dual registrations, 'real time' salary cap and 'Salary Cap Value' rankings (SCV's), 1st tier salary cap and 2nd tier salary cap plus the new playing laws for season 2013. I usually find people have opinions but little or no knowledge of these areas too.

There are actually 26 HKR players in the above lists one of whom was not initially registered in the first team squad of 25 or indeed for salary cap purposes. I believe this player to be Ryan O'Hara due to there being no prospect of him being available to play. In the event he was not registered at any stage.

But that's not what you said.

And posters looked at the relevant rules available by the RFL, to suggest people have opinions with little or no knowledge would be arrogant and the end of your post is guess work.

Fair enough. It represents a fairly major shift and maybe a wider announcement or even just amending the rules would have been in order.

I'm more amazed they still have statements like "eligible for the under 21's". Are they any under 21's side anymore?

Not that I know of. I guess it is a just a handy way to do the age cut-off.

How many times have we been through the quota non fed fed club trained malarkey

The rules seem to me as far to complicated, In my opinion We should only have qualified for any Great Britain side or overseas player & agree a limit on overseas numbers. If we want to encourage clubs to develop young players give salary cap adjustments or make clubs pay for recruiting from other clubs juniors regardless of being out of contract. If Tyla was born here or brought up & started his rugby career here he should be GB qualified.If he opts for his fathers country he should be classed as overseas. We have stupid examples like Dixon at Cas not being Fedaration trained as he came to Cas from union despite the fact he is from Hull & was in the junior set up at one of the citys teams. But expecting the RFL to do the simple & sensible thing is the problem.

I agree it is too complicated. However, they [ucan't[/u discriminate on basis of passport against those with EU or 'Kolpak/Cotonou' passports - it'd be illegal.
It is very hard for the RFL to implement a protectionist policy, either stopping overseas players coming in or homegrown players moving, as it flies in the face of laws based on free movement of labour.

They are not discriminating just laying down the rules of the competition if all clubs agree the rules they just don't employ non GB players. I agree you can't stop players moving on but you can make clubs pay for their training you just make players sign a bond for training, It is done in the aviation industry where traing cost's are prohibative (I am bonded for £15K for an engineering course if I leave before 4 years return of service I have to repay the cost's or the company I join has to & it is enforceable by law) If they choose to lay me off though I owe them nothing.

That would definately be discrimination, against non-GB-qualified players with EU or Kolpak passports and a legal right to work here.

RL competitions don't exist outside of the law. I know there are exceptions made - the registration system and so on. But that is why we have the faff of the non-fed rule - it is complicated out of necessity, because they're walking a very fine line.

The training bond is a very interesting idea - but we kind of have that anyway, with a small fee being payable when young players move clubs. Perhaps that could be beefed up.