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| Hilarious
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| I don't think we need to go down that route. Even if we feel like we think we get nothing from certain refs.
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| Quote ="The_Mighty_F90"I don't think we need to go down that route. Even if we feel like we think we get nothing from certain refs.'"
It is nothing to do with what we get as opposed to what others get or anything like that.
I get sick of hearing referees discussed on TV, forums, radio, for all clubs, and the game shouldn't be about that.
Nothing in that petition mentions anything biased towards our club. It is not a whinge. It is my honest feelings about the sport that I love.
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| Its a crap job in which they'll never be right I'm certain that the refs aren't intentionally poor however much we'd like t think so. If you want the officiating improving why not do a course yourself, learn the rules and apply for a job.
For me its not the officials we have its the lack of numbers, we need to be able to rotate and rest the refs, have a bit of competition for places.
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| The forward pass section towards the bottom of the link is my favourite bit.
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| Quote ="barham red"Its a crap job in which they'll never be right I'm certain that the refs aren't intentionally poor however much we'd like t think so. If you want the officiating improving why not do a course yourself, learn the rules and apply for a job.
For me its not the officials we have its the lack of numbers, we need to be able to rotate and rest the refs, have a bit of competition for places.'"
The pool is obviously shallow and that has to be a big concern for the RFL. We see touch judges who look 13 and some who look 73. We barely have enough elite referees to cover the whole weekend if an injury occurs to one of them. It's a tough job and I personally have no problem with them tbh. Referees will consistently be a talking point (in any sport). They'll get live decisions wrong - it happens.
I get the point about video referees. What I'd like to see, is more transparency in the process, in very much the way the BBC have audio from the VR during CC games. Explaining what he's looking for and what he isn't. I think this helps the viewer/fan a lot. Of course, the Sky commentary circus would despise losing this phase of the game. "Finger tip control" "I'll put my house on it" - would be lost for ever more. TBF - watching the Lions in Aus. I thought we could learn (or adapt) a lot from the way they go about it.
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| Nice sentiment, but a petition for improved standards will always be a bit nebulous. Fair enough, you made some suggestions for specific measures but you can never remove human error without removing humans. We're always going to have to accept imperfections and while the RFL should of course try to limit them, it is easier to accept that reality than take on the more or less impossible task of changing it.
Sport, like life, isn't always fair, but that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable. The excitement, uncertainty, even the guilty thrill of getting a decision hopefully make up for it.
If we're sick of discussing referees, then let's not, it's our choice. No matter how cack they are, we're not obliged to.
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| Quote ="Mild Rover"Nice sentiment, but a petition for improved standards will always be a bit nebulous. Fair enough, you made some suggestions for specific measures but you can never remove human error without removing humans. We're always going to have to accept imperfections and while the RFL should of course try to limit them, it is easier to accept that reality than take on the more or less impossible task of changing it.
Sport, like life, isn't always fair, but that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable. The excitement, uncertainty, even the guilty thrill of getting a decision hopefully make up for it.
If we're sick of discussing referees, then let's not, it's our choice. No matter how cack they are, we're not obliged to.'"
I admire your way of thinking, but it is more than human error that I was getting at.
Yes, mistakes happen - pretty sure I said that too - but there is a lot of inconsistent refereeing, and poor displays to blame it all on human error.
Video ref decisions being wrong should not simply be allowed to be human error. The whole system of putting players on report is pathetic now. Forward passes could easily be judged by a video screen if needed. Its all those things that I was referring to.
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| Quote ="ScottHKR"I admire your way of thinking, but it is more than human error that I was getting at.
Yes, mistakes happen - pretty sure I said that too - but there is a lot of inconsistent refereeing, and poor displays to blame it all on human error.
Video ref decisions being wrong should not simply be allowed to be human error. The whole system of putting players on report is pathetic now. Forward passes could easily be judged by a video screen if needed. Its all those things that I was referring to.'"
I don't think the standard is great, but I guess sports fans have always felt that way.
Certainly we'd all like it to be better, but that is vague. Credit to you then for making some suggestions that you think could improve things. But this is where it gets tricky - for example i'm leaning increasingly towards two refs, as I think the tackle/ruck area is getting to be a farce. But I see on HullKRfans that somebody feels the opposite way, which is fair enough. The problem of refs making more errors than we'd like is clear, the solution less so.
There are a few changes to the rules that I think could be made to make the refs' lives easiers, without damaging the spectacle - but we seem reluctant to deviate too much from the rules used in the NRL.
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| What is a correct decision? I’ve seen decisions on sky talked about by ‘experts’ or at worst people with as much knowledge as us and even they can’t decide whether a decision is right or wrong.
I’ve been at games where I’ve swore blind the ref had the opposing teams shirt on under his refs one only to come home and watch it back and find out 9 times out of ten he had a point.
The bottom line is he will never be right in the biased eyes of fans, if he was the only ones to blame would be the team and that’s really not what we want.
I agree a running commentary of the VR decision would help, maybe 2 VR’s to debate it.
I know we hate rule changes but why not use the NFL / cricket template that at Televised games teams get 3 challenges to be used at any time, get it wrong and you lose them. Would add a bit of interest.
Bottom line is petitioning for them to get better is really pointless, I’m sure there mission statement is to get better.
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| Quote ="barham red"What is a correct decision? I’ve seen decisions on sky talked about by ‘experts’ or at worst people with as much knowledge as us and even they can’t decide whether a decision is right or wrong.
I’ve been at games where I’ve swore blind the ref had the opposing teams shirt on under his refs one only to come home and watch it back and find out 9 times out of ten he had a point.
The bottom line is he will never be right in the biased eyes of fans, if he was the only ones to blame would be the team and that’s really not what we want.
I agree a running commentary of the VR decision would help, maybe 2 VR’s to debate it.
I know we hate rule changes but why not use the NFL / cricket template that at Televised games teams get 3 challenges to be used at any time, get it wrong and you lose them. Would add a bit of interest.
Bottom line is petitioning for them to get better is really pointless, I’m sure there mission statement is to get better.'"
You say asking for them to get better is pointless, yet you made two suggestions of how they could be better in your post?!
My petition isn't sour grapes, refs hate rovers etc etc. It is the fact that I am falling out of love with this sport, and I think it is farcical that things such as video ref decisions get called wrong, forward passes can't be looked at on the screen and all that rubbish.
One day, a team will lose a final based on a decision, and the sport really will fall off its loosely fitted perch.
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| Quote ="barham red"Bottom line is petitioning for them to get better is really pointless, I’m sure there mission statement is to get better.'"
Spot on.
Watched the Rugby League Superstars programme a couple of weeks back featuring Steve Ganson and while we all know what happed at Magic Weekend he actually came across very well and yes they are striving to get better, but as has alraedy been mentioned they are working on limited funding.
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| Quote ="ScottHKR"
One day, a team will lose a final based on a decision, and the sport really will fall off its loosely fitted perch.'"
Like a penalty try decision in a major international final. Australian RL had this and its gone from strength to strength.
I have no problems with suggestions and these should be emailed to the RFL, maybe a fans 'spokesman' should be on a committee or whatever sits but what we need to know is there really an issue. In the cold light of day was Thaler really that bad at the weekend, I can't face watching it again so I don't know. I'd have to ask a fan of a non Hull club what he thought.
The only real qualms I've had this year is Ganson at etihad and Child at Wigan. These were both VR decisions and down t interpretation. If we went VR on forward passes then ‘poor’ VR decisions would be made every game. Similar to what is and isn’t an obstruction.
I just don’t get what the petition is for. Do we want a ref sacking, Ganson or Sharp to stand down. Yes voice suggections but is a petition the vehicle for doing it.
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| Quote ="Gerrum on side ref"Spot on.
Watched the Rugby League Superstars programme a couple of weeks back featuring Steve Ganson and while we all know what happed at Magic Weekend he actually came across very well and yes they are striving to get better, but as has alraedy been mentioned they are working on limited funding.'"
Came across as an arrogant t*t and giving officials exposure like that will only make their egos bigger!
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It might have more chance if the section on forward passes didn't demonstrate that whoever wrote it doesn't understand the law on forward passes. When the RFL read that they're going to bust a gut laughing.
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It might have more chance if the section on forward passes didn't demonstrate that whoever wrote it doesn't understand the law on forward passes. When the RFL read that they're going to bust a gut laughing.
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| Quote ="Kosh"It might have more chance if the section on forward passes didn't demonstrate that whoever wrote it doesn't understand the law on forward passes. When the RFL read that they're going to bust a gut laughing.'"
I understand the law all right, I think it is ridiculous though.
And if the RFL bust a gut laughing good for them.
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| Quote ="ScottHKR"I understand the law all right, I think it is ridiculous though.
And if the RFL bust a gut laughing good for them.'"
If you understand the law then why are you suggesting a method for judging forward passes that wouldn't actually work?
And if you want the law changed so that forward is judged relative to the ground rather than the passing player then you haven't thought the implications through and/or have no idea about physics.
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| Quote ="Kosh"If you understand the law then why are you suggesting a method for judging forward passes that wouldn't actually work?
And if you want the law changed so that forward is judged relative to the ground rather than the passing player then you haven't thought the implications through and/or have no idea about physics.'"
I want to see a massive Rob Burrow making a flat pass to tiny Eorl Crabtree in an Ames Room, on BnA. I love a bit of forced perspective. And shoehorned double meanings.
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| Getting a fair few people signing up to this ScottHKR.
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| Quote ="Sandra The Terrorist"Getting a fair few people signing up to this ScottHKR.'"
.........and plenty on the other SL Forums I see
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| Quote ="Sandra The Terrorist"Getting a fair few people signing up to this ScottHKR.'"
luminaries such as R. Silverwood, Craig Sandercock, Nigel Wood and Chris Burton among them.
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| Quote ="Rupert Pupkin"Came across as an arrogant t*t and giving officials exposure like that will only make their egos bigger!'"
Take out his Derby bloopers at Magic Weekends 2013 & 2012 & Leeds v Bradford (Milleniam Magic?) and he's been one of the best we've had. Maybe I've just got a soft spot for him #respect
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| I think the ref's are on a hiding to nothing, I think we are asking far to much of them, We need a root & branch overhaul of the way the rules are applied. The ruck area is my main concern, we are hell bent on speeding up play to the point that the defence is pushed to get anywhere near ready, I would ,(1) ensure the ball is played by the foot every play the ball any movment ot the ball backward by the hand to be penalised. ,(2) stop tackled players holding the tackler, kicking out & strggling on the ground,(3) moving forward off the mark, (4) stop players diving to the ground to get a quick play the ball by enforcing the voulantry tackle rule. It should be every players duty to try to remain on his feet & make forward progress with the ball. Tidy up the ruck & half our problems are gone. There are lots more we could do but there is not enough time here.
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| Quote ="Beverley red"I think the ref's are on a hiding to nothing, I think we are asking far to much of them, We need a root & branch overhaul of the way the rules are applied. The ruck area is my main concern, we are hell bent on speeding up play to the point that the defence is pushed to get anywhere near ready, I would ,(1) ensure the ball is played by the foot every play the ball any movment ot the ball backward by the hand to be penalised. ,(2) stop tackled players holding the tackler, kicking out & strggling on the ground,(3) moving forward off the mark, (4) stop players diving to the ground to get a quick play the ball by enforcing the voulantry tackle rule. It should be every players duty to try to remain on his feet & make forward progress with the ball. Tidy up the ruck & half our problems are gone. There are lots more we could do but there is not enough time here.'"
I agree. The 2 obvious routes to go down are, IMO:
1. Slower, more controlled rucks. A penalty could be given at almost every ptb now. No real attempt to play it properly with a foot, not on the mark, markers not square, putting the ball down [ithen[/i standing up, hands 'accidentally' getting trapped delaying play, defenders attempting to dislodge the ball after the tackle. There's so much room for interpretation or discretion that it is no wonder fans (with their natural bias) get frustrated with refs.
Aside from the making the ref's life easier, I think it might make play a bit less stereotyped - it all seems to be about winning the collision and getting a quick ptb, rather than [uever[/u trying or needing to beat a set defence. I know that is difficult to do, but do we need quite such hectic pace to a match or 60+ points per game at all regularly?
2. Apply the current rules more stringently, to try to cut down on all the messing about in the ruck (now I sound like Stevo!). Which might well require a second ref.
The only problem, IMO, with any unilateral and at all radical change is the impact on the international game.
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