Glad you are fed up the feeling is mutual . If you cannot debate goodbye !

This isn't a forum where you can debate because if you don't conform to the majority you are not welcome, Playing devils advocate maybe new posters are put off having their thoughts on here due to the old guard stalwarts who seem very set in their ways? both myself and tatty have expressed our views only to be shot down instantly, being a new poster and new to this forum I got the feeling of a clique and if any new folk with different ideas show up they are ganged upon. Like I say i'm only playing devils advocate so would like your unbiased view on things. COYD

Sorry Hally cannot agree about clique sorry you see the established posters that way.

The reason why you may have felt you were being ganged up on was because your early posts were using a confrontational tone. This was unlikely to endear people to your point of view. Once you started to debate properly and explained why you feel the way you feel, there was some headway made in getting a decent debate going.

I really enjoy a good debate and that's why I like coming on here. Throughout my life I've learned the most from listening to what others have to say. I don't always agree with people but if they can put a compelling argument for their case, I can often be persuaded to change my mind.

I'm certainly not a "yes man" and always want to listen to both sides of a story but I'm not going to be convinced that someone else is right if they simply tell me I'm wrong.

Maybe there's something we can all learn from your suggestion that it feels like a clique and perhaps we can all do more to make new posters not feel that way.

Maybe fresh ideas and a different approach could be the way? The club is in a huge rut and it seems some of the fans are happy to accept this, i'm not advocating pitchforks outside houses but where's the passion? as paying fans we can push for change instead of sitting on our hands and taking whatever garbage is being thrown at us

Hally said on his last posting “where’s the passion?” and I have to agree with him. Where is the passion? The fighting spirit of The Dons supporters seems to have disappeared.

Apart from the ‘passion’ where is the compassion? Carl has made some mistakes and I’m sure he would be the first to admit it, but aren’t we all capable of that? Instead of ‘kicking’ the man when he’s down, isn’t it now that he needs our support more than ever?

Come on you Dons! Let’s get behind Carl and the lads and pool our resources. We have done it before and can do it again.

Hally under the new system fresh ideas are being tried. Any suggestions you might have will be very welcome. Nobody has a monopoly on new ideas. We all, it seems, want the same end so don't be reticent if you have something to offer.

Maybe the last 8 or 9 forum meetings the issue of our discipline has been questioned but still we are no closer sorting it out and its killing us every sunday, also questions asked to carl on itd never gets fully answered, I get the feeling carl hates the thought of anyone questioning his authority and any suggestions gets quickly swept under the carpet. The club have to say there willing to listen to any ideas but cmon we all know that ain't the case. For me it boils down to how many times can I take being lied to

May be Hally you have no confidence in your fellow fans .

I attended my first fans forum & I thought there was a positive interaction between club officials & fans . The club are going to put proposals out on how to increase base . The fans will then say what they think & reply .

May be you should put aside the fact you have no confidence in club or its officials . I did & am hopeful for better times ahead .

Consider giving them another chance .

I really do feel the club are wanting to listen to the fans more. Here's some more details on one of the things we raised at the fans meeting about season tickets: Not knowing when the fixtures will be after the league splits makes buying a season ticket much less attractive. Firstly the club acknowledged the problem and said they'd look into it and further consult with the fans as to how season ticket purchasing could best work better for us. Hence this is one of the reasons why season tickets won't be going on sale early this year.

They also wanted to see if there were other ways the fans could be rewarded for showing loyalty to the club when buying season tickets. Gavin Baldwin said that the initiatives the Rovers had used to include various different season ticket packages had gone down really well. He was going to see what could be done for us.

Hally, I understand your concerns about Carl not fully answering questions on In The Dugout, we need to point that out to him and see if things can be improved. In The Dugout is a really good concept. I'm not sure how many other teams at our level will be trying to interact with fans in this way. I'd like to give the club and Carl some credit for doing it but it's a good point, we do need to look at how it can be made better.

The issue you raised about penalties is probably one for Richard Horne. Giving away penalties must really be a coach killer. We see it time after time in all the games we watch. One of the Hull tries in the Cup Final was on the back of a really silly Wigan penalty.

I used to post a lot on here but have to admit i have lost a bit of interest in the game due to various reasons. I now find that having followed the Dons home and away for many years i don't have the time to commit to it as i did previously, once you break the habit of going it's hard to get back into it.

Good point Rupertbear.

After all the pre season hype from CH about " the largest budget ","going for promotion" ,"we need to get out of this division bla bla bla the season has been an embarrassing failure.
We need to face facts, we are a poor team in a poor division where the standard of rugby is bordering on amateur and we are still only a mid table side.
A team that snatches defeat from the hand of victory, with a CEO that is only too happy to tell loyal fans that its wrong to criticize when they have paid their hard earned cash to watch games thrown away through silly penalties and lack of discipline.

Crowds are dropping as people find other things to do on a Sunday, than pay £15 to watch paint dry.

I have held a season ticket since the great days at Tattersfield, but chose to pay as I went this year.
That is something I have not regretted , even though I have attended all but two home games this year , i will be doing the same next year unless I am convinced other wise.

GT was appointed as he was "The man with the knowledge of the division" and what did he bring............Poor player recruitment, boring rugby and disappointed.
CH said it was GT's team and he had nothing to do with the selection but as I see it he was the man who appointed the man that was going to ensure our trips to the rugby wilderness would be short lived.

Now all we receive is the drivel from "The dugout".

For the love of God please knock this tripe on the head because you are turning the club in to a laughing stock.
Excuse after excuse and never a straight answer given, then calling fans for voicing an opinion.
I think a job in politics beckons Mr Hall when his tenure in RL is over ,which with any luck will be after next weeks game.

Club Doncaster need to look at the Dons and decide if they want the club to move forward with a new CEO or leave it to die a slow painful death under the currant one.
Carl thanks for all you have done ,but it really is time to go.

I like Carl ... what I question is his judgement.
I don't want him to go, I want him to stay.
But we really do need to pick better coaches ... I mean, if we got a good one, he may stay years and get us to where we want to be.
At the risk of banging on ... we haven't had a stand out coach since Ellery and possibly Paul Cooke.

Get bloody John Kear in.

I don't think anyone dislikes carl and he does take a lot of flak but most of that is brought on by himself, just look at some of his statements and targets over the last couple of years and tell me how many of those he has hit? The weekly ITD episodes are just cringeworthy with him waffling rubbish whilst somehow blaming everybody else but him, we are a broken unattractive club and attendances will only fall until something is done about it.

I will reserve judgement on RH as this is not his team and i think he deserves a season with his own players.
However looking forward, where are the next generation of supporters coming from, the clubs fan base is shrinking rapidly.
The highlights reels of the games are disheartening as we see undoubtably the best stadium in the league 95% empty, surely we can follow York and get a regular 1000 fans coming through the gate.

I enjoy a beer or two around York every now and again with work colleagues and have attended two of their home games this year when the Dons have had a free weekend or been away at the back of beyond .
They seem to go the extra mile to put bums on seats offering two for one deals and generating a good atmosphere , something that is lacking at the KM

We need to encourage more spectators and sponsors ,do we actually have anyone other than CH and his cronies in the boxes on match days?

What is wrong with giving the empty hospitality boxes to companies free or at a small charge and who knows we may pick up one or two additional sponsors along the way.

With further expansion teams muted to be joining the competition i fear we will rot and fester in this division until such a time as Club Doncaster see fit to cut us loose.

I know sports fans from the town are a fickle bunch but why the hell cant a town as big as Doncaster attract more than 500 people to watch the greatest game of all in what are fantastic facilities.

That question can only be answered by the stay away fans.
Over to you Carl

I agree that we’re probably only a mid-table side (perhaps more accurately described as a top eight team) but I don’t think the standard of rugby is poor when the top eight teams play each other. The games against the bottom half teams are often one-sided and do very little to attract fans to matches.

I understand that people have a choice of many different things to do on a Sunday. All clubs are struggling to keep their supporters. The Newcastle game was very tense with everyone on the edge of their seats most of the time. The result wasn’t the right one but the game was certainly entertaining.

I’ve had a season ticket since the bad old days at Tattersfield, which then included the great days at Tattersfield as well. I’m glad I never gave up on the club. If the loyal few of us had walked away in the late 1970s and the early 1980s there may not have been a club around in the late 80s and early 90s for everyone to enjoy. I sincerely believe that the best way to help bring success back to the club now is for us to all stick together and try to help the club move forwards.

I’m sure someone else on here called Carl a politician recently. If Carl was a politician he wouldn’t have said some of the things he’s said on In The Dugout. He would act much more diplomatically. Questions asked don’t always get thorough answers. He’s taken me to task on more than one occasion for asking what he feels are silly, inappropriate questions, but when he’s done that I’ve talked to him directly and we’ve sorted things out in a constructive and friendly way. The guy’s human and has a rant from time to time. His misdemeanours are not a hanging offence. We need to work with him to help make things better.

Here’s my overview of Carl’s performance:

It was an inspired move by Carl to bring in Paul Cooke. We finished 4th in the Championship in 2014 under PCs guidance.

A poor recruitment strategy resulted in an awful 2015 when we got relegated. Paul Cooke was voted coach of the year in 2014 and most of the fans respected him. This probably showed that even good coaches can make mistakes and get things wrong.

GT was appointed to take over the failing team but couldn’t stop us from getting relegated in 2015; the damage had already been done with poor recruitment.

GT was then correctly given a full season in charge with his own players recruited. We reached the play-offs but got soundly beaten at Barrow. It wasn’t the greatest of achievements, the rugby we were playing was quite one dimensional and boring, but we seemed to be turning a corner and had stopped the decline. GT was given another chance to rebuild for the 2017 season.

After a poor started to 2017, GT was sacked. As promotion was the aim, we were falling short of that target. I believe this was quite a decisive move by Carl and Club Doncaster.

A young, ambitious coach was brought in, someone who could probably be compared to Paul Cooke, apart from the fact that he wasn’t out there on the field guiding the team around. Richard Horne’s got experience of playing at the highest level and played in the backs. The coaches who tend to play the most attractive rugby are usually ex-backs.
It was unrealistic to expect GT to turnaround the Paul Cooke era overnight, it was similarly unrealistic to think Richard Horne could put right all the GT wrongs. He’s not been able to but it would be unfair to hold that against him.

In summary, I believe Carl has acted decisively when things have gone wrong and replaced two coaches. He made a mistake in appointing GT but we need to remember that GT had won this league with York. With hindsight, we can all see it was a bad decision.

Carl’s got things wrong with some of the things he’s said and done on In The Dugout but at least he doesn’t hide away behind his office desk. He’s always willing to talk to any of us. Other structures are being put in place off the field to help the longer-term prospects of the club.

I do not quite see how Carl seems to be the arch villain. He has done his job effectively for the most part with a few errors along the way. He remains passionate about the club and his enthusiasm to get things right seems greater now than ever before.

I do not agree with the suggestions the club is an embarrassment. The club was an embarrassment when we were being filmed for Another Bloody Sunday. The club was an embarrassment when it went bankrupt when we reached the big league. The same applies when we went into administration after the John Wright years. It was an embarrassment when Craig Harrison and his business partner pulled out after getting the club promoted.

At the moment we are under-achieving, not an embarrassment. With good recruitment in the off-season, there is no reason to believe we can’t bounce back in 2018 and be very serious contenders for promotion.

It should also be remembered that the levels of investment required for this to happen are because of Club Doncaster. If we were relying on income from gate receipts alone to fund the team, I’m sure we’d be in a much worse situation. Or maybe we could try to find a man with money who is prepared to back us until he either runs out of cash or decides to leave us in a financial black hole?

I would urge all fans to get behind Club Doncaster, Carl, and Richard Horne because we all need to be strong together. Let's make suggestions for changes and improvements and help the club get to where we all want it to be.

It's great to hear an optimistic post on what is a pessimistic subject. I would urge Keith Lard's Dog to write to Carl personally and ask the questions to the man directly. I did and received replies to my concerns. carl.hall@clubdoncaster.co.uk

It's great to hear an optimistic post on what is a pessimistic subject. I would urge Keith Lard's Dog to write to Carl personally and ask the questions to the man directly. I did and received replies to my concerns. carl.hall@clubdoncaster.co.uk

Here's an interesting quote from a York fan on their forum:

=#0000FF2017 Average including challenge cup games is 795, average including challenge cup last season (including the big crowd vs Acorn) was 725.

For this season I'm using the crowd figures given in the programme:

Egremont Rangers (CC) - 635

South Wales Ironmen - 752

Rochdale Hornets (CC) - 652

North Wales Crusaders - 709

Doncaster RLFC - 1012

Barrow Raiders (CC) - 904

Coventry Bears - 902

I don't know the ins and outs of what went on before, but I think it shows what can be achieved when everyone works together. Onwards and upwards.

Quote ="sanjunien"It's great to hear an optimistic post on what is a pessimistic subject. I would urge Keith Lard's Dog to write to Carl personally and ask the questions to the man directly. I did and received replies to my concerns. carl.hall@clubdoncaster.co.uk'" Good stuff Sanjunien. I'm pleased Carl answered your concerns directly. That's reassuring.

Quote ="sanjunien"It's great to hear an optimistic post on what is a pessimistic subject. I would urge Keith Lard's Dog to write to Carl personally and ask the questions to the man directly. I did and received replies to my concerns. carl.hall@clubdoncaster.co.uk'" Good stuff Sanjunien. I'm pleased Carl answered your concerns directly. That's reassuring.

I think that's the biggest problem quite a few fans including myself have emailed carl with questions over the years and the answers and solutions he gives never come to fruition, you have to understand there has to be a limit to how much spin and BS someone can come out with hence why a few have called him a politician.

I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had conversations with Carl in the past that have resulted in some unsatisfactory outcomes.

On the occasions I’ve had words with him, we haven’t always been able to see eye-to-eye but fortunately we’re able to agree to differ without falling out. I’ve made suggestions that haven’t been taken on board but I respect that I might approach something from an ideological point of view, whilst Carl and the club probably have to see it from a more practical point of view.

If some of my ideas are implemented I’m more than happy.

Like you, I passionately believe in the Dons. They’ve played a big part in my life and I love rugby league. I do believe that the more we can all try to work together, the better our chances are of achieving the best we can for the club.

I have emailed the club twice before and received no reply.

My concern with the club is that under CH we have not progressed with the any of the objectives set by Club Doncaster.

As has been reported, the clubs budget was set to compete with the best sides in the division.
Gavin Baldwin stated that the board had fully backed CH and GT giving them the largest budget ever, with it being enough to challenge for a top two finish .

All the hype and optimism at the start of every season soon faded away after two months of poor performances and an embarrassing performance at home to Toronto.

The clubs marketing team spared no expense promoting the Toronto game and with a large crowd and tv audience watching , we dished up what must go down as one of the most embarrassing performances ever seen.
Hard direct running and fast play the balls where met with missed tackles, one dimensional offence and the white flag of surrender hauled up with only fifteen minutes on the clock.

Players capitulated as the Wolfpacks forwards dominated the exchanges setting a platform for their backs to run riot.
Scoring at will producing a score that has yet to be surpassed even against the supposed league minnows.

Since then little has improved ,if by some miracle we do finish 5th ,then another embarrassing trip to Cumbia awaits us

CH is the man that has to be held accountable for our short comings , yes GT and his recruitment was awful and our playing style predictable , but CH stated he had appointed GT as he knew the division.
GT had to go as was stated by Gavin Baldwin, surely if he had any morals CH would follow.

KLD, I’m sorry to hear that your two emails didn’t receive a reply. Have you thought about approaching Carl at one of the games to have a chat with him personally? Sometimes it’s much easier to have a face-to-face conversation with someone, rather than talking via emails. You can more easily ask follow up questions then.

With regards to the objectives set for Carl by Club Doncaster, according to Club Doncaster the only one that he has failed on is that he has not increased attendances. The other objectives have been reached. They’re the words of Club Doncaster, not mine.

When GT was appointed, his CV showed that he had won this league with York. If any team in any league can appoint a man who has been there and done it before (and quite recently), it would seem like something of an achievement to get them. Things didn’t work out as planned. Carl can be held accountable for this but sometimes it’s only after the event that mistakes become obvious. He allowed GT a fair and reasonable amount of time to sort things out but I believe he acted quickly and decisively when it became obvious that we weren’t performing to the required levels this season.

You state that little has changed since then. On-field matters are the responsibility of the coach, not Carl. You may be concluding that Carl has made a mistake in appointing Richard Horne? Not wishing to be disrespectful to the players we have as I believe they try hard week-in, week-out, and as I mentioned on another thread, I have the utmost respect for any player who puts on a rugby shirt and puts their neck on the line for our entertainment, but a number of this squad fall short when it comes to being the best, or better players in this league. We must keep this in mind when we draw conclusions about where we are at presently.

Toronto are clearly a cut above everyone else and Barrow seem to be a fair bit better than most of the rest. We drew 24-24 with Barrow at home and lost 14-10 when we played them away. Even with the majority of the GT squad still here, we aren’t a million miles off. Yes, we want to be beating the likes of Barrow, I accept that, but the two games against Barrow are a fairer measure of where we’re at in this league than comparisons to Toronto.

There are a group of teams, including the Dons, in the top half of the table who are all capable of beating each other on their day (Whitehaven, York, Keighley, Dons and Newcastle). Richard Horne needs to recruit the types of players he wants for next season as his style of rugby is certainly much different to GT. With some good players added in key areas, we can improve considerably on what we’ve done this season.

I agree with you that GT had to go but I don’t understand why Carl should have to go. He made a mistake appointing GT but he’s done all that Club Doncaster have asked of him except get attendances up... and from the fans point of view not always answered everyone’s questions as effectively as we might like on In The Dugout.

We need to try to work with him to help get the club to where we all want it to be.

The only real difference between us and Whitehaven is that they have won half a dozen tight games.
Whereas we have shaved the odd one.

Nothing really, apart from style, has changed between GT and RH.
The results haven't much.
So you could argue that it IS the team.
But you could also argue that RH is no better than GT.
.

You make some fair points S/O but RH is trying to play a different style of rugby with players that were signed up with GTs playing style in mind. It's a bit like trying to play chess with draughts. I would like to think RH has been using his time in charge to see which players can adapt to his playing style and replace those that can't or aren't good enough.

It'll certainly be interesting to see who is kept on... and probably even more interesting to see who he signs!