Allen isn't even Championship 1 standard , let alone SL , and the fact that one or all of your coaching staff rate him good enough tells you exactly the problem you have

A very good player in a decent Barrow side and one player they were disappointed to lose. He has shown glimpses of his ability but this side is being poorly coached and his performances have suffered as a result.

Still you judge him all you want on two very poor team performances.

You're loving this, aren't you?

It's like a ing wet dream to you.

Look, the licence process is almost as e as the w@ankers coaching our team. Nearly all of us feel this way here, so you are preaching to the wise. try the VT, you might get a bite there.

He's like a rubbernecker slowing down to drive past a road traffic accident.

He has always been poor , even when he was up at Barrow , he has no ' Heart ' ,

Starry that's poor even by your troll standards.

He's well off the boil at the moment but he went well early on when coming off the bench I thought.

He is O'Connors old car share partner to Wigan though which makes me believe he's safe regardless. Similar for Finnigan too.

I won't say it isn't amusing , are you suggesting our ' demise ' in 2009 wasn't the same for yourselves ? , but just as yourself , I find this particular action , absolutely crazy , if you get a couple of injuries you could be in real trouble , yes bollok them , drop them , make them play in the reserves for a couple of weeks , but publicly humiliate and release them , just crazy

He's a football player masquerading as a RL player , it was commented on how he was your top tackler against us , that's because he is your main ' spot ' player , he is targeted every time we play against him

No way... you're thinking of a different player. He was class for us before he was made el capitan...On his day he's one of the better back rowers in this division.

Not really, I didn't want to see Leigh go down.

What our coaching staff are doing, is simply trying to save their own skins by trying to defect the blame from them and on to the players - four players in particular. Four players that wern't even the worst on show. Madness to us, saving their jobs for them.

This is a bit more than just about Widnes, for you though. You’re here having a go at the licence system and hoping that you can get someone to defend it so you can say that we are all changing and favouring it because it seems to be favouring us. Well, this isn’t the case.

WHAT THE MOTHERTRUCKING MOTHERTRUCKER!!!! ive only just clocked that, so they have actually been 'released' then? rather than just told they wont be offered new contracts? WTF!!!!! THATS EVEN MORE INSANE! HOW TO COMPLETELY FUCK UP A SEASON, SQUAD AND ITS MORALE IN ONE FELL SWOOP: BY DENNIS BETTS!!!!!!

I’m not sure this is entirely about Denis Betts. We’ve been here before with Webster and Ford (again), last season. Paul Cullen was in charge then. Coincidence?

I think not

its time for a revolution. free your mind steve Oconnor.

If I remember correctly in the days leading up to us signing him, Barrow were under the impression that they were re-signing him and Des Johnson called him the best player in the Championship. Admittedly he is not playing well at the moment, but not many are. From watching us recently, you would say that Gardner, Ropati, Tyrer, Leuluai and Allen all can't tackle and that Thackeray, Ropati, Pickersgill, Netherton and Allen are all useless in general - but it doesn't necessarily mean they are bad players. There seems to be a bit of a cloud over the club at the minute and not a very good environment to work in. Are they bad players, poorly coached, worried about not getting a contract next year so they are not bothered? unless you are a player at the club, its very difficult to pinpoint exactly why seeming good players are playing badly.

If there has been trouble behind the scenes with players attitude called into question or bust ups, I think you've got to back the club over the player(s). If the club think that they are weeding out the bad apples, there must be a reason for it. I honestly don't think TO'C, Betts or PC have just bascially picked on 4 players just to cover their own backs. I guess it remains to be seen, however if their actions have a positive effect, or just alienate the players and fans further. Seems a bit of a last roll of the dice move and if the club have got it wrong, obviously things are only going to get worse. Things were always going to be very difficult on Thursday and Monday, so I am at least going to stay undecided about this until the players have been back out on the pitch.

Allen is a class player and I'd have him back at Barrow in a playing capacity tomorrow. However, he shook hands on a new contract at Barrow at the end of 2009 and then welched on the deal, so few Barrow fans respect him as a bloke. Not sure he's good enough for SL though.

None of these players are super league standard, there are better players in this division, couldn't understand the trouble the club went to last season to keep thackeray. We have the franchise so now the club is making preparations for super league. hopefully recruitment will be better than in recent seasons.

The thing that gets me the most is i strongly think that without Thackeray's performance against fax in the Semi final, we wouldn't be heading for SL. I mean its not like last year we never tried to win anything. didn't do brilliantly in the league but when have we ever?? and we made the NRC final.

I know where you are coming from mate... very frustrating indeed, but you can't blame a lad for doing a u-turn if they are in a position to do so if it means only having to travel 10 minutes to work instead of 2hrs

Spot on mate we are aiming for more quality in our squad, if the whingers thought that the sun shone out of thackerys backside just think that we will have have a new playmaker who can pass and kick.

Pray tell? Who is this then?

What for now?

Scenario - 10 mins left on Thursday we are down by 8 but gaining some momentum... Who do we turn to for a bit if magic to win it?

I will be highly delighted if we are down by 8pts with 10 to play

I know he was classified as a one trick pony but at least attacked the line and more times than not produced something. I fear the worst for this season.

If your going to have one trick then scoring match winning tries out of nothing isn't a bad one certainly

I think some are confusing 'Thackeray will not be our SL stand off' with the truth that is 'Thackeray won't be playing again for Widnes even in Champ!'

Grant Gore or Tom Gilmore.