Chris , have you read Trashs post on the subject ? , it tells the truth of the matter , which is pretty much what I said from the start

Last year when Widnes posted accounts showing a ' loss ' of around a million pounds I spent 2/3 days defending those accounts , trying to explain them to our fans and others from other clubs ( mostly Fax fans as I remember ) that you had not actually made a loss but that it was just an anomaly of the input of funds from your owner

Short memories maybe on yours and one or two others part

As Trash has explained , yes on the books it will show a million profit on 2.5 million turnover , but in reality you have broken even , or made a slight profit on the years trading

Why have I spent a couple of days trying to calm down lots of Widnes fans from boasting all over RLfans boards ? , basically because all it is actually doing is making you sound like arrogant SL fans , you are on the whole mostly better than that , you are on the whole loyal level headed RL fans

I don't want you to look stupid , unfortunately one or two of you , really are that stupid , in the end I gave up , but even then the likes of J 20 still wouldn't let go

As I said , read what trash has posted , In fact it is quite strange that nobody has replied to him or asked him to explain further

Just because you will become SL fans in 6 months time doesn't mean you all have to become (removed) now

All the best

First off, I've told you before recently about swearing. You know better than that, stop getting around the swear filter or you can cool off.

Secondly, suggesting widnes fans in general are all in danger of becoming ANYTHING speaks volumes about your recent postings. This isn't about our accounts. It's about us. Your projections on how we are going to start behaving and how you are all that is bravely standing between us and extreme obnoxiousness. There is some hypocrisy here. I have noticed an upturn in trolling emanating from yourself recently, so those in glass houses.

Thirdly, nothing you have posted has actually negated anything I have said. You are going over the same old ground since the very first post, and yet nobody on here, not the supporters, not the negaters, not people neutral, have the finances of widnes rlfc at hand. You're boring. And as you're having this post everywhere, you're not just boring, you're tiresome. Why don't you go back to patronising people on the VT and change this broken record.

Sounds good to me

So does that £2.5m turnover include the £1.8m which was provided by SOC as part of the trust or some other such financial arrangement?. If so, that would mean that the club only generated a turnover of £700k itself and actually has operating losses of £800k for the financial year in question?

I am honestly not having a go as I am not really that bothered by Widnes accounts and I am sure you will never have financial problems while SOC bankrolls the club, but you have to admit it does trather smack of getting carried away while doctoring a disappointing school report

Why don't you email the club and ask them.

Eh?

I struggle to see how people think that Widnes can't run at a profit but Workington can, especially with the NW Business man of the year in charge!

Were operating at an 800k loss? Would hate to see what Barrow's losses our then eh?

I've been away for a couple of days and returned to this news... absolutely amazing stuff.

Do I suspect that SOC has had a hand in his pocket to help with things? Of course I do... but there are a couple of things that have been done at the club that haven't been mentioned here. In the last year or two I believe that it has been negotiated with the HBC that all corporate boxes, tickets etc now goes back to the Vikings in the new rental agreement.
Anybody who has been down will have noticed that pretty much all boxes are always full on a match day regardless of the opposition. Also these ticket prices that are being thrown around of £10 -£12 average could be well off when you take into account the number of Gold and Silver ticket holders that we have at the club. Again. All you need to do is look at that central section of the south stand to see just how many people are paying 'a lot' more than the £15 for a ticket for a bit of privilege.
Vikingstorm is now turning in a nice bit of profit and all concessions sold on a match day go towards the club also.

I'm not saying this makes up the extra £1.5 million turnover from last years figures but it goes towards it.

Fantastic figures... fantastic leadership.
The accounts will be available soon for all to scrutinise anyway so the detractors should just wait and if they are confident they will have their day.

In all honesty SOC probably has a lot to do with it. Im not sure its as fantastic as it looks. I mean its great for the club looking at the figures you could go in to SL and still turn a profit, something that most SL clubs cant do. Its fantastic for the fans knowing that when you get in to SL if SOC keps ploughing his money in then at least you might be able to compete with the mid table teams and who knows but on the flip side if he decides to leave which in this current climate could just happen like that then your team will probably go belly up again. I do however believe Widnes deserve their place in SL its just a shame that they havnt done more on the field which IMHO is where it should really count. I do admit to having a bit of a green eyed monster when i look at where Widnes are going compared to my own club. We would have no chance competing in SL without a wealthy backer and who knows what will happen when we get turned down for a franchise.

He is a fan now and the sponsors are here for a long term.It wont go belly up again.

Greg... the key word is sustainability....

I don't doubt that the figures include some personal donations from Sir SOC. However the club is trying hard to increase revenue and has done that with these new arrangements on corporate hospitality. I don't think these factors should be overlooked. Also the merchandise sales has rocketed...

For years all the club had for sale was the season's shirt, a geometry set, one mug, a light pull and some faded car stickers. I kid you not. You had to tootle along to the club (which no-one ever did because there was nothing to browse)
These days the range of merchandise is fantastic and the location of the shop is far more accessible.. this year I have bought the shirt, two hoodies, a gym bag, a polo shirt. My wife has bought some training kit, a polo shirt and we have bought our son a baby grow. We have probably spent close to £250 in the shop. I don't think this is unusual and other users on this board probably have spent similar sums. We will almost certainly be purchasing more stuff from next seasons range.
A big thing now is the website which sells merchandise and the number of people that can now order online and have goods delivered should not be underestimated.

It's easy to trot off numbers like 3,000 people buying tickets at £10 ticket average prices and 750 people buying a shirt at £40 but that is nowhere near reflective of what is acutally going on at the club. Throw in occasions like the NRC final and the spending shoots up.

In SL I would expect crowd figures to at least double, we would be getting the golden ticket of Sky money and sponsorship should increase. I think we would do okay... but no-one's pretending that having SOC at the helm doesn't help. If he did keep ploughing his money in there is nothing to say that we couldn't emulate what Warrington are doing now.

I can't wait for Widnes to go up either. At least who ever replaces you should provide some on field competition

I'm assuming you're saying this because if the rumours are to be believed then it's serious pay cuts for your players that are staying whilst others are offski next season. Fev need someone to put up a bit of a fight I guess.

What have you won this year again? (13 a side

)

Sad thing is, more and more people are reacting negatively to us like the above and yet more and more people are suggesting we are somehow becoming arrogant and above our station.

We can't win.

What happens to all the money made from the function room at the stadium? Does that go to the club or the council? 2 functions a week normally, nearly every week of the year. Ive been to a couple at the stadium and they make thousands alone from the bar each night.

Council mate. Apart from match day hospitality.

Even so-called journalists are having snide little pot-shots and Widnes too. It’s dressed up in an anti-licence rant, but it seems to be putting us forward as some sort of pantomime vaillain.
[urlhttp://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/tigers/Inside-Rugby-League-column-Super.6483689.jp[/url

I agree with some of what he says, and the general anti-licence sentiment, but it really is a very Yorkshire biased article, with the Lancashire clubs bearing the brunt of accusation of RFL bias, and the poor Yorkshire clubs being picked on.

Peter Smith is taking it as a fact that Widnes have been told that they are in. He claims that the Championship criteria have been set purely with Widnes in mind. There is not a shred of evidence for this, and he is on very shaky ground indeed basing an article on this notion.

This phrase is so inconsistent it is almost laughable.
[i“Certainly the criteria which hopeful clubs from the Co-op Championship must meet seem to have been devised with Widnes in mind.”
[/i
Certainly/seem to be?

Definition: Certainly - [iCertainty can be defined as either (a) perfect knowledge that has total security from error, or (b) the mental state of being without doubt. Objectively defined, certainty is total continuity and validity of all foundational inquiry, to the highest degree of precision. ...[/i

Definition: Seem - a[ippear: seem to be true, probable, or apparent; "It seems that he is very gifted"; "It appears that the weather in California is very bad"

- appear to exist; "There seems no reason to go ahead with the project now"

- appear to one's own mind or opinion; "I seem to be misunderstood by everyone"; "I can't seem to learn these Chinese characters"
[/i
One is a definite and the other only proven in his own mind, therefore very much indefinite speculation.

Then he says this:
[i“Vikings have already ticked a box by winning last season's Northern Rail Cup, though their on-field performance since then has been poor.”[/i

We’ve already reached one final and we’re still in the play-offs. We haven’t had a great season, but we are far from poor. Our injuries have played a major factor in our form this season.The new low £300k cap makes this a totally ludicrous accusation anyway. Any club can beat any club now. Batley winning the NRC is a perfect example of how this affects the ability of the bigger clubs to make that count. It’s great for the competition, but no use to an ambitious clubs with funds enough to operate at a higher cap level. It will have little bearing on the squad we are likely to field in 2012 anyway (should we get to SL). That will be decided on whether or not Widnes will be able to utilize the full salary cap. I think we are more likely to be able to do that than Wakey, Cas or Salford.

This is also a disingenuous remark:
[i“The RFL claim the 14 best bids will receive a licence. But that is not necessarily the case, as the governing body have already made it clear that – provided the criteria are met – a Championship club will be moved up at the end of next season.

All bids ought to be considered on their own merit, with the top 14 chosen, irrespective of whether they are currently Super League or Championship clubs.

What happens if each of the 14 incumbents put together a superior bid
to Widnes? Interestingly, the RFL plan to announce in March which Championship club has got the golden ticket – four months before the rest of the licences are confirmed.”[/i

It was well known, even before the licence era began, that a licence would be granted to a Championship club, providing they met the criteria, in 2012. The SL clubs had the chance to vote for a 15 club Super League but rejected the idea. This is what has condemned a Super League club to banishment. If Widnes don’t get a licence this time round, I doubt there’ll ever be a Championship club promoted to SL again. What would that do for the game? Is he saying that the drawbridge should be raised just to save a Yorkshire club which has reneged on promises to build stadia and would probably have to make more promises about stadia again to get a licence?

Some sort of relegation and promotion is essential in order to keep some form of incentive to improve and prosper. Everyone knew what the situation was long ago. It's a bit late to be crying about it now. Claiming that Widnes wouldn't [i"enhance the competition"[/i because, "Though they have better facilities, Widnes have no more support at home or away, their junior development system is no better and they are just as closely situated to a host of rival clubs."

I guess he must have missed these figues the last time we were in SL:
------- 2002 2003 2004 2005
Widnes 6510 6511 6153 6794

Wakey 3889 4017 4806 5100

Salfud 4199 n/a 3996 4093

Quins 3803 3546 3458 4003

Hudds n/a 4722 4362 5853

[i"Both Castleford – who unveiled architect's plans of their proposed stadium last week – and Wildcats are stepping up their stadium proposals."[/i
We heard all this cr@p last time and what has happened since, you biased Yorkshire T@

What an absolute snide.

It's as if, (a) people's suspicions that we have already got the go ahead are completely confirmed. This is complete nonsense. No one has any confirmation whasoever of this.

(b) we are somehow less than the clubs already in super league. Look at them. Look at Wakefield, Cas and Salford and tell me what they have that we couldn't outdo given their opportunity.

To be a conspiracy you'd think they would have kicked out Cas and Wakey last time instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt like they did. They were given a chance and they've not progressed. We were not given a chance. There is no lancashire bias. If there were, there wouldn't be more yorkshire teams in superleague than lancashire teams. They're in a rugby dominated area and as for the pop at our youth, LOL! I wish I could respond to this idiot. He is being paid for this.

I suspect it is just another worried fan placating fellow fans who may be feeling the same. There is no substance in this article.

All this franchise stuff is getting bitter now.It is making fans dislike each other, and to be honest some of them quotes are shocking.They know we could enhance our crowds when a success with oconnor and stobarts at the helm.We was once 7th highest average crowd in Superleague and we was not successful.I really dislike these Yorkey twixes.

The Yorkshire RL media is well known for basically being absent minded biased Pillocks and they'll all admit that themselves!

My fellow Widnes fans we all expected this and as the decision gets nearer we need to be prepared for plenty more digs. But we have the experience to go the distance whatever they throw at us. Even the scruffy caravan owners are having a pop from up the road. Well i for one will be glad to see the back of them once were in Super Dooper land. Stuff the lot of em, you need to look after yourself these days.

Is this the official... 'let's not pretend to be humble anymore' line in the sand and from now on we're SL certs whenever we talk about ourselves.

Sod em Chris, they talk like they're our friends but any given opportunity they will stick the knife in good and proper. I look forward to sipping my wine and ignoring anyone from the championship who attempts to converse with me.


Roll on 2012.

Heres to the good old wire derby days!