If we win nothing, maybe. Then again Toulouse will probably see us both off anyway.

we are being judged over a 3 year period which means that your success in winning something this season may also be looked at. i know you have a chance to win things this year but if you get knocked out of the rail cup by us then surely that will be taken into account that you may not appear in any final this year.

that point i can fully agree with. although i beleive that by the end of this season both widnes and halifax will have grounds of a higher standard than super league teams anyway. although i dont think any super league teams will get the axe from super league.

Unfortunately, you seem to be counting chickens here. We may not win anything this season, but we will have another year to put that right. Oh and don't put it past the RFL to move the goal posts if they want a particular club in at all costs.

That could be your major problem. SL is already Yorkshire dominated. I can't see them adding another unless one is kicked out.

I think people will be more suprised if they dont do this than if they do!

If they dont change then it may be a case of Wakefield and Salford dropping down with potentialy Fax and Widnes going the other way along with Toulouse.

Try reading the first line again.

I don't think they'll drop anybody. If a club goes bust they might get dropped, but that depends on where they're located.

that is where the franchise system is all wrong there. not dropping teams that dont have the grownds that both of us do. there is going to have to be an end to this franchise at some point they cant keep increasing the competition every year.

the RFL need to be strong come the next franchise and make sure they think about where the franchise is going or they could have a problem very shortly.

I fully agree. In fact, the way Halifax are playing, you should have been looking forward to a possible GF and automatic promotion, and I'd happily cheer you on.

But things are now very different.

That was an NRC game against York, Don't take that as our crowds dropping.

Take a look at your North Stand in a few weeks and tell me you can compete with us on crowds.

we have to get there first there are no guarentees anyone can beat anyone in our league on there day.

i cant see why we could not have continued with the promotion and the relegation and the crusader and catalan dragons could have gone to super league the way the rest of us had to try to but that could now mean that the franchise will over look one maybe both of our clubs who may or may not depending on opinion deserve to be playing super league.

next franchise toulouse get in lets say.

then the next franchise a scottish team comes in and get sstaight to super league.

then irish clubs and maybe a club down the far end of the country in cornwall or devon as such

where does it end.

great clubs like yours and ours could be frozen out and forgot about completely just for clubs from different countries getting thrown straight in at the deepend they should earn it like the rest of us had to.

maybe we cant compete at the minute but we have 3 years and the crowds for home gates have steadily gone up throughout the saeson and will probably be bigger on sunday against barrow and would expect the biggest crowd of the season at our place when we play you a week on sunday.

we have both had the crowds in super league we both have the potential to be attracting 6 or 7,000 crowds for a super league gate which is better than a few clubs now.

Take a look at the Railway End at Castleford when we played them...no free coaches nearly 2000 there.

You're not going to win this debate i'm afraid. Sadly we've a long long way to go before we get anywhere near Widnes on that score.

If we start playing better, our crowds would also go up even further.


Of course, but we all know that the RFL are only interested in LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!!!

Theres no debate just stating facts - Widnes have more home fans that us at the moment attending - ours are increasing slowly.

exactly and that is why the franchise has to stop as soon as possible and the RFL need to make sure they look at it and go back to promotion and relegation. neither of our clubs may ever get back in again if clubs keep coming in in other countries.

The problem with that is, what if Harlequins, Celtic or Les Catalans finish bottom. These clubs would probably cease to exist if they fall out of SL. So the RFL would then have to go back to allowing these clubs 8 Aussies or more to keep them up.

The stated aim of the RFL is to make even these clubs develop players on an equal footing with everybody else.

This is what licences are all about and, barring disaster, I cannot see P&R coming back any time soon sadly.

well hopefully they keep the rules that they have in place and the most successful and the ones that tick the most boxes get into super league.

Yes, no free coaches. But that was a Challenge Cup game against a local SL club that aren't too far away.

Could you bring that many to Widnes if this game was being played here?

Thats not the point! you cant keep picking your games to say what a good following is or not - remember your "dont judge us on a NRC attendence"

maybe not as many fans as 2,000 but we do take quite a lot of fans to away matches.

I don't think it's really just about who ticks what box, but also the quality, durability and robustness of the areas that are judged.

That is why I think it would be very difficult for the RFL to turn Widnes down, provided we tick that really important box of winning the NRC or appearing in a GF.

That is precisely what you have done, by mentioning the Cas game.

So, you are saying that our league support is reflected by that NRC game with York?

Don't be silly.