I was pleased for Denis today ,think he enjoyed this game which we was never going to win but so so close we've had a torrid time this year but glad to see him smiling well if I say it my self I loved ut showing a great bit of character

So impressed with Owens and Craven yesterday. Owens positional play was top class and Cravens ability to land a bomb about a yard short of the try line was crazy!

It's players like those that Widnes need to build a side around.

That's part of the reason our first team have been so over the last few seasons. The club have had a heavy emphasis on youth (cue littlrich)

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To think that some bloke in front of us was slagging Craven off and shouting for him to get taken off the field against Bradford last week is amazing. He was quietened down with a flea in his ear!

There are some good young lads at the club but it's hard to throw too many in at once when the team are getting 'pummelled' so often.

Just like to echo the comments re; Dennis Betts. Glad he seemed relaxed and seemed to enjoy the effort. I don't particularly want him out, I just want someone who can get yesterdays effort out of the team week in week out.

I have been a big critic of Betts but good to see him smile.He does need to sort our defence out and possibly a defence coach assistant is required.With Scott Moore gone we may improve.Jack Owens and Craven I hope play regular.Only improve with game time.

So, everyone's warming to Denis



Next Friday you'll be baying for his blood.


Good effort though yesterday. Need that "30 something" defence sorting though.

What people need to remember is that Widnes are decimated with injury and have been all season. The likes of Owens, Craven to a lesser extent Mullaly would normally have been eased in gently but at the moment are playing every week. Owens wasn't even playing championship rugby last season.

Right on Cue

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Always like to keep my hand in on my second favourite club

I'm certainly not just yet!

We played well against a Saints outfit that looked disinterested and thought they had it in the bag. Put it this way, Saints have only shipped in 38 points once in the last 2 years. Is Widnes's attack really that good to inflict that level of damage or were Saints not playing at as intense a level as they usually would?

Friday will again tell us a lot and I won't even start getting excited until then. If Saints up their game and give us a predictable battering then it was as I suspect. If we can match them again for periods of the game and keep them to less than 20 points then we might have turned the corner.

Absolutely spot on mate. Injuries have played a far greater part in our season so far than people are giving credit.

Correct. Don't get me wrong we have been bad (a lot) but with the injuries we have had it's no massive shock tbh. We have had as many injuries as anyone else and 3 players out for the year after just our third game!

People will say 'you should have the squad' but in one years recruitment the squad was never going to be strong.

Good to see Craven getting better and more confident week by week and Owens just seems to make the first team step up look easy at times for a 17 year old!

And that's the crux of it... I'm sure in years two and three when we've added to the squad that we will be able to handle injuries a bit better but if you took Tim Smith out of the Wakey side, Chase out of the Cas side and Gower out of the London side they would probably have struggled as we have.

I said at the game on Saturday that who knows how the season would have gone thus far with Watts available? There was no doubting his ability pre-season and the short spell he was on against Salford he looked to liven things up.

I take heart from the fact our forwards really began to come to the fore on Saturday. Hep Cahill looks better every week, mulls is back and always improving, kav is a big miss, kite will be running through walls next season with more game time and a full pre season training program under his belt. seriously that guy will destroy tacklers next year with the proper work in pre season. Lloyd white has a long way to go but we keep seeing glimpses of that potential, we need to maximise that in years two and three. Flynn and ah van have been awesome, Owens and craven keep getting better all the time. You throw watts and a few new signings into that mix and assuming the coaching staff get their together and sort the team ethic and defence - then years two and three (and beyond) look much better. This is still pretty much the opening play of a long building process, we just need to stick it out. The future is bright.

Do you think so? I actually think his quality is showing through now. I don't think he's the best hooker in the division or anything but going forward I think he's a good option and is scoring some good tries.

ok, I should have chosen my words more carefully on that one. I agree his quality is showing now, but that's my point - I can see the potential and think he has a lot more to offer in future. I stand by the rest though

Lets hope we can build on this, a good performance tends to followed by an atrocious one in the next game. I hope they prove me wrong on Friday.

Also thought Haggerty had his best game for us on Saturday!

I wouldn't count on it , Paddy.

Saints are going to be smarting after that. Friday could be a thrashing. I doubt they'll be resting players this time.

I know, I'm just far too optimistic for my own good. If Roby plays then it will be thrashing, couldn't handle him on Saturday.

Spot on about Roby.

The way to stop him is to get off our s after the tackle and get two markers at the PTB as quickly as possible. Too many times our last man off the tackle was still on his arris leaving Roby one side of the ruck to run at. Manna from heaven to him.

Just stick me in at hooker

ill smash Roby onto his in the first minute then shout 'BOOM! Plenty more of that for ya BITCH!' in his face, before turning to lomax and saying (whilst laughing maniacally) 'i see you again today, I will literally tear you a second '. That'll take care of the threat

Betts' problem is that he over respects SL oppostion as if Widnes should feel priveliged to share the same pitch.He puts the whole competition on a pedastal and compares ourselves as boys playing against men,all the time lowering expectations and convincing fans we are lucky to be where we are because last year we were playing Batley,which in turn buys himself more time because at the end of the day Widnes are shat and we know we are and don't have a hope in hell of competing yet.Stuff that,it's just a game of RL.Fair enough,a team such as ours will cop a few hidings during the season but FFS not conceding nearly 40 per game every game.Could and should be doing better.

I don't want to be too down on the performance but we're kidding ourselves if we don't think Saints took their foot off the gas. They've only conceded 38 points one other time in the last 2 years and I suspect they didn't on Saturday because of Widnes's irresistible attack.

They'll no doubt tighten things up and aren't likely to take their feet off the gas again. If we could keep them to maybe 25-30 points then this would probably represent improvement.

I just hope we don't get a thrashing again because if we do, it almost certainly means that nothing had really changed on Saturday except for Saints not treating us with respect like Wigan didn't.

I agree with this. This is one of my big problems with how it has gone this year. They have made out like Super League is this standard of competition that we could never have hoped to compete with in just one year.

If they were talking about the NRL then I'd agree but we're not. Featherstone were a good example of a team that just went for it rather than being in awe of their opposition who were clearly better conditioned than they were. They outdid them in enthusiasm and effort, something many of us expected this year. Personally, I expected a low quality but high effort side this year.

I actually feel a bit sorry for Betts and think that the blame should lie as much with SOC as him. As pointed out earlier in the thread, we have had our problems with injuries. However, Betts was such an unpopular choice that many fans aren't willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this when a more experienced coach might get this. It is hard to accept from an inexperienced coach that the players he recruited were the best we could have done or that our problems are purely down to injuries.

A coach with a proven record gets the benefit of the doubt. However with Betts he has no record to show that these are not just excuses for his poor performance. I personally think regardless of injuries, there is enough evidence that Betts is one of the big problems.

Spot on weren't you Pepe. All optimism for this season has pretty much vanished.