I,m not pulling anything apart , what has been reported is most likely what is in the books , not a problem , well done , over two years to basically break even in today's economic climate is an excellent achievement especially in our ' nothing to play for league '

As for Leighs financial position , well given that we have a 1,000 less coming through the gates and we haven't made a final , let alone anything else like sponsorship , I doubt it would make good reading , or at least as good as yours

I ll leave you to your GF , she must be getting a bit frustrated by now

Must admit when I first received the text from ny brother in law I thought he must have got it wrong. However having a think about it I cant see why SOC would be so stupid to lie about the figures so they must be right. He wouldnt risk all the good work him and the team have put in since ho took over.

Like it or not, Widnes are now the benchmark for all clubs outside of SL andmost of the clubs in it.

Not envious at all , how long have I been ' singing your praises ' for your entry to SL ?

Your chairman is just crossing his t s and dotting his I s , which he cannot be blamed for ,

However don't be blinded , or you like many of our current SL colleagues will start seeing that nice set of clothes the emperor is wearing as well

Do you know how much each sponsor is paying into the club and merchandise sales?People who are stobart spotters could be buying Widnes shirts,cups, etc.We had a few Challenge cup games, and Nr cup final runners up, and gate receipts.Merchandise for rail final so it is difficult for you to judge.

Stobart spotters? that must add up then.....













Starbug...no VAT on Rugby League Clubs and VAT isn't shown on the books anyway.

Look believe what you want , it is great PR for Widnes , and some good news for RL in general , when at the moment things are not good if rumours are to be believed , I me sure Red Hall will be pleased for that

But seriously , businesses don't go from loss to profit by 2 million without a massive increase in revenue/turnover

All the best

strange then that it was the Vat that refused the payment plan which ultimately led to London Broncos going into administration

I wonder who all those Vat cheques I used to sign went to ?

Last years loss was clearing debt and huge improvements to the stadium and youth set up, painted seats, players lounge area! No debts for the club whatsoever where as there where plenty when SO'C took over... Come on not hard is it!

Quote ="Starbug"strange then that it was the Vat that refused the payment plan which ultimately led to London Broncos going into administration I wonder who all those Vat cheques I used to sign went to ?'" It is strange mate... Rugby league clubs qualify for exemption from VAT!!!!! customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPort ... P529_37394 As you will see no VAT charged by clubs on entry fees....maybe you should have known what you were signing? Just for the record VAT is a form of tax not a Governing Body...that would be the HM Revenue and Customs...

Quote ="Starbug"strange then that it was the Vat that refused the payment plan which ultimately led to London Broncos going into administration I wonder who all those Vat cheques I used to sign went to ?'" It is strange mate... Rugby league clubs qualify for exemption from VAT!!!!! customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPort ... P529_37394 As you will see no VAT charged by clubs on entry fees....maybe you should have known what you were signing? Just for the record VAT is a form of tax not a Governing Body...that would be the HM Revenue and Customs...

Quote ="soss"It is strange mate... Rugby league clubs qualify for exemption from VAT!!!!! customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPort ... P529_37394 As you will see no VAT charged by clubs on entry fees....maybe you should have known what you were signing? Just for the record VAT is a form of tax not a Governing Body...that would be the HM Revenue and Customs...'" Amatuer clubs are excempt on certain things Vat registered businesses are not I put VAT for your benefit , I thought HMRC would have confused you HTH

Quote ="soss"It is strange mate... Rugby league clubs qualify for exemption from VAT!!!!! customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPort ... P529_37394 As you will see no VAT charged by clubs on entry fees....maybe you should have known what you were signing? Just for the record VAT is a form of tax not a Governing Body...that would be the HM Revenue and Customs...'" Amatuer clubs are excempt on certain things Vat registered businesses are not I put VAT for your benefit , I thought HMRC would have confused you HTH

As a VAT registered company you only pay VAT on supplies/services with a VAT rating, if you read the regulations you will see that ALL gate receipts are VAT excempt. Please dont reply to this as your going to dig yourself deeper as you have no idea of what I do in this small world of yours.

I notice you have changed your post , maybe you should read things properly , including VAT on sports tickets

I have no interest what you do , but you are still wrong , VAT is chargeable on tickets for professional sporting events

I know one thing...I am man enough to stand corrected. Just re-read sec 4.

starbugs right on that, the link you posted to me seems to have no relevence to a pro sports club in terms of revenue. it refers to a sports club having to pay fees to enter compititions.

so if the rfl take money from all clubs to enter the challenge cup, then this money would be exempt from vat.

if you don't believe it, just watch how many teams advertise the fact season tickets bought before january can beat the vat rise.

Liquidity is the best indicator on anyones books.

Some players must be on awful Wages at Widnes to achieve that profit. Your gates have dropped around 1k this season !

Starbugs right about the ticket element too.

Starbug

I have to say I share your surprise about these accounts. I cannot say whether these have been audited or reviewed by a reputable accounting firm - does anyone know?

But, given that I am a Chartered Accountant myself, let me make a few comments:

1) Spending money on plasma screens and the stadium should have had little impact on last years results. These items should be capitalized on the balance sheet and the expense recognized over the next few years - so if anything you would expect this years results to be WORSE as you start to see the effect of the depreciation.

2) Clearing debt should have no effect on the profitability of the company. If you have a debt, you pay it off with cash, it has nothing to do with profit or loss, except that of course you are saving interest on the debt you have. Its simply a balance sheet issue.

3) $1M profit on $2.5M turnover is a 40% net profit rate - in this economic climate and in the sporting sector it is simply remarkable. Without looking at the accounts I cannot really start to assess how this was achieved, but based on the stats discussed in this thread, it doesn't seem to be coming through the turnstiles...whether it is sustainable remains to be seen..

mapleyther

The salary cap is £300K. If you believe the revenue figure of £2.5M, the players wages are a fairly minor expense overall.

The CEO of Widnes (until a week or so back) was financial controller at O'Connor and then Stobart. The results are AFAIK unaudited, but no doubt that will follow in due course and you'll be able to obtain a copy from company house. The new CEO (Julia Gaskell) worked on sponsorship management of the Commonwealth games and Liverpool 08, among other things. Suspect we're going to find a significant level of undisclosed sponsorship payments in the detailed accounts.

These are the figures for 2009, when Widnes averaged nearly 4000 and won the NRC. Not convinced the spending on the stadium would be accounted for as depreciating assets - the money spent on new seats is perhaps treated as a simple expense, given that the stadium is not owned by the club?

the club will own a lease to use the stadium, the expenses paid on the stadium would be treated as improvements to leasehold and capitalised and then depreciated over there useful economic life

Perhaps the club would have shown a profit in the 2009 figures, were it not for the restructuring, which took place?



As we are dealing with a tax year which runs from April 2009 – April 2010, this means that the majority of the figures will be made up from the 2009 season.

It was a light hearted joke and you all seem so jealous.How do you all know how much Stobarts,JST nutrition,Land Rover,Oneills,Tetleys,Riverside College,Halton Borough Council,Halton Buses,Halton Housing Trust, and viqi are putting in each month?Ste oconnor could be putting £10,000 each month towards viqi so it is all possible.Merchandise from 2 rail finals and gate receipts.So jog on and congratulate the next super league team.

I'm not surprised at all by those fantastic results. It's great for the fans of Widnes who must love reading a set of financial results like that. What the club fails to deliver on the pitch they certainly make up for it with a sexy balance sheet and P&L.

It's all good. It's all Super League. (Well, apart from the massive profit of course - that's very un-super leaguey)

absolutely correct griff.

And by the way, this has nothing to do with Widnes getting a franchise - they fully deserve it in my opinion...just not overly convinced by these figures..thats all....

if anyone can get hold of a copy of the accounts let me know..its a bit hard to get them from Canada.,..

Companies house shortly like Every business figures will be... Why lie and risk all the hard work done?

Widnes made a loss of £950k in the year ended 30th November 2008 on turnover of close to £1m. This was the first year of the new regime and included significant costs incurred in re-structuring many of the clubs activities. The expenditure (close to £2m) was funded by the £1m turnover and the remainder by money put in by SOC which in those accounts, was not included as turnover.

The results reported yesterday would be for the year ended 30th November 2009, when Widnes average crowd was still 3,900. In addition to this the club shop (and relationship with O'Niells) was fully functioning. The Dream ticket lottery had had a full year running and new sponsorships had been obtained. Costs were cut by the release of several head office staff (Mike Banks, Pat Cluskey etc) aswell as a reduction in first team costs.

It is entirely feasible that Widnes could have achieved a break-even/small profit position on ordinary trading in the twelve month period.

The headline results of £2.5 million "Turnover" and £1 million profit will almost certainly have been achieved by the inclusion in the Turnover of funds injected by SOC (in years one and two) previously carried as Directors loans but now written off as no longer requiring repayment. This would be an "extraordinary" item in the accounts and , though included as "income" in the accounts would not be included as "turnover". However in press releases and reports such as those we have seen in the last day or two, the term "turnover" will have been used disingenuously to "spin" the figures for License bid purposes.

I would suggest the accounts are not incorrect but that the reporting of them is purposefully designed to make the club look better for the forthcoming bid. Not unusual in these days of "Artists impressions" of new stadiums and 5,000 crowds for meaningless games against Batley Bulldogs!