your a argumentative person i'll give you that

How much covered seating does Craven Park have?

Size. Better facilities. It doesn't look like it has been abandoned for fifty years.

But all irrelevant. Come what may, Saints have decided it isn't good enough, and they're moving. Wakefield have been warned about their stadium, it is no longer deemed suitable for SL, neither is Castlefords, and Saints got through by promising to move. Your stadium is not good enough. Not big enough, not enough seats, terrible toilets, terrible snack bars which look like scout tuck shops. Seriously.

Come on!!

Name the others?

you do know thems only toy soldiers dont you

You do know that they're only toy trolls we're up against, don't you?

very good

If the RFL released a statement tomorrow saying "Widnes will be promoted regardless of any criteria whatsoever because we just like the club" not one Widnes fan would give a toss.

The reason? Not one single club has made a stand against the franchise system,they all did as they were told no matter how far the rules were bent for certain clubs and as such I'm simply beyond caring about anyone but us just like most of our fans on this board.

It'd be great for all of us, particularly the clubs stuck in the championship to have more money, a larger pool of British talent, nice grounds and competitive leagues with promotion and relegation.

I'd love it to be so but a more likely scenario is that nowt changes bar Widnes go up soon and some poor bleeders go down and I'll take that for now.

The great thing about the Franchise system is that it will be announced just part way in to our season which Championship team will be making the move to SL. But like a couple of chairman have mentioned what happens if all the current SL clubs end up with more points than Widnes application? Im sure the RFL will be very secretive about who scores what. Afterall when they decide which team out of Cas or Wakey they are kicking out the last thing they want is for people to find out that they both scored exactly the same as each other on the criteria.

Good point, I would assume they may change their reasoning or give new reasons as to why people are in or out. Like the administration thing with us last time. The criteria said you gained a point of you were 'solvent'. At the time of application, we of course were with O'Connor putting in substantial structural backing. But the admin thing became the reason behind it.

I do think because the criteria is more 'off the field' based, or at least not really dependant on a good first team (which I agree is bizarre) that Widnes will come out on top over a couple of SL clubs. The ground/turnover/junior set up are all big ticks in the RFL's boxes.

Widnes are without a doubt the team that are best prepared for SL. But the criteria is based on things that the RFL really arnt bothered about. I mean would they chuck Leeds or Bradford out because their grounds are poor. I doubt it. Turnover means diddly squat when most teams in SL are losing money hand over fist. Also Junior set ups are just a joke when the top teams just pinch all the best talent before they even get to their mid teens and some even before their teens. This was pretty much the reasoning behind Fax just about bining their junior set ups. Teams are left to pick through what is left and then when you develop a player the RFL lets a top team steal him for a measly couple of grand.

The RFL made the criteria, so the first statement is wrong. Why would they not be bothered about it? you used Leeds and Bradford as examples about grounds, but both their grounds are fine, particularly Leeds. Saints are a better example, and they got an improvement notice last year.

Also, the junior set ups and the myths surrounding them. Could you tell me then, why do Widnes have an under 18's in the top 4 pool of the country when Warrington, Wigan, St Helens, Leigh are all within a 20 minute drive? If clubs have that attitiude it's just down to laziness, service areas are set up in every area now and set up by the pro clubs, if they cannot develop a clear pathway through to the first grade, then that's their fault they are not developing youngsters for their first team long term.

You are developing players for those teams. Fax had one of the best second strings around for years winning the league on a couple of occasions. It really didnt make an iota of difference because although they were a good team hardly any of them were good enough for first team and the ones that were went to SL teams. You can have the best junior set ups around but 9/10 players that `make it` will want to play for top teams.

I would suggest that Halifax gave up on their youth structure at the wrong time. I also would suggest that the reason for dropping it was probably more for financial reason rather than simply because SL clubs were poaching your youngsters.

However, I do accept that SL clubs will poach Championship academies. They’d already have access to the best youngsters in the surrounding area anyway, due to their status though. If Widnes were looking at the possibility of staying in this division for good, it would probably be better to do what Halifax is doing and concentrate on the first team.

As it stands now, Widnes may not have to worry about SL clubs poaching our academies, because we may well be a SL club this time next year. We’ll see.

Please don't compare junior set ups now to junior set ups years ago. It's all changed, I know because I'm involved at a decent level. We will take Widnes as the example then, of a lower league team with a good set up, ok, it doesn't come for free, but these lads are all contracted and getting game time in the first grade to see if they're good enough. You won't change my opinion on this, as I think yours is dated, junior set ups are changing completely. I was actually talking toa lad who was at Halifax last year that would have stayed there if the set up was better, regardless of them not being a SL club, there are plenty more like him, I know that for a fact.

We didnt run a second string last year.I also cant think of any decent young Halifax born player we lost last season. As for my ideas been dated im only talking 2 seasons ago.

Im talking 14/15 years old at service area level. Ok, well everythings changed now to what it was 2 years ago.

If you can't think of any decent Fax born player you lost last year then isn't your arguement flawed?

Ban this troll he is a idiot.

I dont know i forgot what my argument is.

Your boring trolling on here so jog on.

I'll bite to Gary High.

Halifax has invested everything into their first team for the last two years, and because of the RFL's criteria, Widnes have invested in other things. Inevitably changing what happens on the field. I didn't think it would take a genius to see that?

While still spending the full cap on your first team. Thanks to SOC. Good on him, wish we had someone similar at Fax. If we did, we would be a shoe-in for SL as well. But we dont unfortunatly.

Pickersgill.

BRILLIANT