And congratulations for the above - I was actually referring to your comments bout Fax putting all their eggs in one basket for this year when clearly we are not.

Everything has been put into your first team. So, yes you have.

Let's get serious for a minute. The RFL won't be turning anyone away because of a weak juinor set up. Attendances, performances and location will be the overriding factors. The probable fact that Toulouse are through already means the rest of the contenders will battle it out for another spot. Halifax will resume their junior set up next year after having won the NRC and GF. However, i've said before many a time - unless we get a serious money backer or an average attendance of 4,000+ while in the Championship then i don't want the club to get a place in SL. I want to watch my team win on a regular basis in front of healthy crowds, not get stuffed by "average" SL teams such as Huddersfield or Warrington, not to mention the massacre's handed out by Saints & Leeds. It's one thing being "ready" to win a franchise - it's another competing in the elite league. On balance i think Widnes will be better placed to do that with the current set up. If someone comes along with some serious money in Halifax then that may change.

That's a very big [size=150IF[/size, Rich. We were very, very lucky having Steve O'Connor step in and buy the club, otherwise we would've ended up with most of the old board back in place. In the current climate I doubt there'll be too many millionaires committing themselves to a sporting money hole.

I wish Halifax luck though.

I didn't win the Euro lottery this week as planned (£50m)



Anyway, it's not really an "if" to be honest. I'm with Starbug on this one - clubs like Halifax & Leigh have to turn their attention to making the championships a viable competition in it's own right instead of waiting every three years for a leg up into insanity. So long as the RFL keeps the door open then it's always going to be a "chasing the dream scenario", which to be fair, is what many lower league clubs have been doing for years anyway even with P&R.

I think that concept was destroyed the moment the licence system was put in place. The lower league will not be a [i'viable competition in it's own right' [/i Until P&R is restored and the best team each season gets a crack at the big time. Having corrupt old men in suits decide these matters every 3 years will hamper any attempt to alter this situation. All we'll get is gimmicks.

As far as who and why a club should get a licence in 2012, I can only go on what clubs have in place right now and not pipe dreams. IET summed up the case for my club perfectly, with no what if's, other than getting ourselves in a position to bid.

No it hasnt.. I think the point your fellow Widnes fan was trying to make is that we have gone all out this year to qualify - we havent - if we dont make it this year then we will come back even stronger next year - like we have for the past 3 years. We havent taken the Widnes route of a couple of years ago where it was or bust....we all know how that ended up.

You've put everything into your first team, the lot. I would say you can have no argument with either me or IET on this. Clearly all your resources are being put into winning something this season.

I don't think we want to get into the whole going bust thing now do we?

Why not? you did it last



Clearly we are putting resources into the first team yes - same as you - but its not going to or bust.

But you used to do it on a regular basis.




We are not putting all our resources in one basket. We have a full youth set up that is as good as anything in SL. There is no way Widnes is going bust under Steve O'Connor and you know it. Suggesting this just makes you look petty.

Im not suggesting it in the slightest. You thinking it must mean that you have concerns.

Why would I be concerned?

You have a habit of saying things and then trying to twist it. You've just implied that Widnes could be running with a poop or bust mentality - or why mention it - and earlier you accused me of picking games for attendance figures and trying to have it both ways (whatever that meant), when you were the only one actually naming specific games for the purposes of evaluating attendances.

I didnt imply it - i said that a couple of seasons ago you did go or bust and you bust.

What has that got to do with the current situation?

Nothing towards yours. It was in reply to the suggesting that Fax have gone for it or bust - we havent - i was mearly pointing out that we havent gone for it like you did that season.

Very good, but the point I'm making is we are able to run a full youth set up for the full period of the current licence period without the liklihood of going bust.

The fact that Halifax feel they cannot do that doesn't bode well for their financial viability in SL, or provide a likely route for young talent for the next few years. I think you'll find that the RFL may find that important. Bringing youth through is what the licences are supposed to be all about. Not even running a reserve side until next season is not a good start to gaining a licence, whether you are likely to go bust or not.

In your opinion.

And for bringing players through it would appear yours arent good enough if you are shipping players in on loan to take their places.

And everything should be in place for the next round of licences. You still might be mid table if you continue at your current level.

We have some excellent young players. But we have tried to use to many at once and played them too often with a weak pack. Some are currently injured and some have recently been suspended. It would have been better to play these kids in hand picked games.

The two times we've played you, on your own ground, we had about 5 of our youngsters on the pitch. You didn't hammer them did you? That last game could've gone either way. Unfortunately some of them have had a loss of confidence, due to being out muscled every week, and have been sent out to other clubs to gain further experience or put back in the reserve side. It has allowed us to bring in a bit more experience until they are ready again.

So there not good enough at the moment. We both agree then.

Spin it how you like, but they'll be ready before any of yours ever could be.

so is grayshon any good then or not, the last 8 pages haven't really helped

Hes not as good as the lads in your Academy in my opinion.

He's bigger and more experienced than what we have. Our biggerst disappointments have been the youngsters we have in the pack from other clubs' academies. Two of our regular ex academy pack men have been suspended, hence Jon Grayshon here on a months loan.

You can take the out of our youngsters when you can actually bring some through yourself.

Maybe...but will they be ready in time to put you in a position to apply for SL?