Firstly congrats on getting a SL licence, i bet a few beers will be cracked open in Widnes tonight, it will be great to have the derby games back and all the usual banter.

I guess you will have a lot of tough decisions to make between now and the start of the 2012 SL season, a lot of players will obviously leave and possibly some of the coaching staff.

With Denis Betts lacking experience as a head coach do Widnes fans believe he`s the coach to take you forward in SL ? A lot of fairly young british coaches have been failing in SL for whatever the reasons, Paul Cullen did a lot of good work at Warrington, he changed the way we played and he was the person responsible for our attacking attacking style of rugby which we play now and its great to watch, unfortunatley we couldn`t defend in those days under PC and his limitations were exposed in a tough competition.

The likes of Steve McNamara and Richard Agar are 2 other fairly young british coaches that had limited experience as a head coach, one was found wanting and the other is currently struggling.

Look at the difference Tony Smith has made at Warrington, he basically took the same players that the previous coaching setup had struggled with and took them to wembley in 2009 to win the challenge cup and obviously we backed that up in 2010 with a couple of additions to the squad.

I think you need to go for a proven coach with a proven track record and one thats not past his sell by date, Wayne Bennett looks like he`ll be leaving the Dragons at the end of the season so i`m sure he`d take the lifstyle of Widnes ahead of Brisbane.

Anyway, you know more about Widnes than i do and you will know Denis Betts strengths and weakness's and if he`s upto a SL head coaches job.

I think Betts is obviously on trial..... and it doesn't appear to have started very well.... maybe he will turn things around.

having said that, if he doesn't, i dont think SOC will waste anytime in replacing him.

I can see Noble in charge 2012.... that's if the Hull fans don't get their way.

You make a lot of interesting points, and I tend to agree with them and your conclusions. Widnes, for some unknown reason, have never had an Aussie coach. I would hope the club would at least consider it this time.

I don’t want to write off Denis Betts too soon, but the signs are pretty mixed at the moment.

Id like to see Noble given the job with possibly Betts as his assistant

Difficult to judge betts with a squad of players who are basically seeing out their contracts barring a small minority of players who will remain with us. He must have the ability to attract players given his reputation in the game globally. I am still unsure, wouldnt mind that smith bloke from the wire though.

Denis is now in the hot seat and will be given time to prove his worth/abillity, it is still very early in the season, lets see what happens. If it works out, great, if not, SOC will sort it. My own opinion is, Denis will come good and prove SOC and whoever advised him to hire him correct.

It will be interesting to see how things pan out for the coach and the players .

Some of the players will be resigned to the fact that they will be leaving the club at the end of the season and must make a good effort to get a new club.

Betts doesn't have to worry about winning the play offs or cup , but a poor run could see him booted out or dropped to a more secondary role.

Don't Cullen or O'Connor carry any responsibility then?

Terry O'Connor is Director of Player Welfare (whatever that is

)

Paul Cullen is Director of Rugby.

I think Betts will be our head coach next season (presuming are season replicates more the first 7 games not the last two). Personally I have been impressed, I know the last two not great but at the end of the day that was 120mins of poor rugby out of the season too date with players we all know can do a lot better as we have seen in Widnes shirts as well as for other sides.

Unless you were maybe going to bring in Wayne Bennett on a two year deal I doubt Betts would just accept being #2 too anyone else so I think it's his to lose no doubt. The SL monkey is off the players back now so it's time for us to really push on. Speaking to Thackeray hours after the announcement and he was saying the same thing, his mind was already on the next game 100%.

As for all comments you read about players leaving so won't try... Salford won the 'treble' in this league after they got the nod!

I think J20 you are right. Denis Betts was very well respected at Gloucester and I think he will do a good job at Widnes given a little more time.

We did have an coach from the Antipodes once --- Happy Frank Endacott -- who did not inspire the club that much.

Widnes have had two bad games which they can now hopefully put behind them, and they can they play the kind of Rugby we know that this squad can. If we can play Gareth Haggerty and Danny Sculthorpe in the same 17 I would be very happy.

And we still have some very good youngsters coming through the ranks and with Mullalley coming back into the squad from his lessons in Australia I can see us being quite good enough to nullify some of the comments from a couple of moronic Wire Drawers.

He wasn’t an Aussie. He was a New Zealander, like Graeme West. We’ve never had an [size=200Australian[/size coach.

He never said he was

Yes, but it seemed to be in direct reply to my assertion that we’ve never had an Aussie coach. I know full well that we’ve had an antipodean coach. As I have already pointed out, we’ve had two (both of which were New Zealanders). He also seemed to implying that, because ‘Happy Frank’ (a New Zealander) was rubbish, there’s no point in bothering with an Aussie.

It was a weird sort of ambiguous and meaningless comment. I never said that we hadn’t had an antipodean coach, did I? Because ‘Happy Frank’ (a New Zealander) was , does that mean an Aussie would be? If not, then why make a point of it? Take a look at the most successful SL clubs lately. The majority have had an Aussie coach at the helm.

I think the point about young English coaches, put forward by the original poster, was valid. He put forward several examples and explained why any decision to appoint one is a bigger risk than appointing a more experienced coach, particularly one from the best RL competition in the world.

Pepe, why do you not admit that you are trying to wriggle out of saying something stupid. We have never had an Australian coach. Got it?

We have had Antipodean Coaches. Got it.

I don't want any more Antipodean Coaches.

Come to think of it I am not bothered about having an Australian coach, either.

Betts will do for me.

Enjoy the game tomorrow.

Eh?

What might this stupid thing be, from which I am attempting to wiggle?


Yes, but then I always did. It was me that first mentioned this fact, if you remember?

It seems to be you that is confused about the meaning of the words Australian, New Zealander and antipodean and the distinction thereof.


See above.



OK. I don’t have problem with that. Just the ridiculous assumption that because we’ve had two New Zealand coaches, who have flopped, then it’s not worth bringing in an Aussie coach either because they are antipodean too.


I think it’s a bit early to decide one way or another. I personally just want what is best for Widnes in the long run, and won't base my opinion on some silly bias.



Of course.

What have you got against having an Aussie coach anyway?

The majority of clubs that have won SL grand Finals had Aussies in charge and our two failures in NL1 Grand Finals were against clubs with Aussie coaches, while we had a crap English coach.

Pepe, you are taking this very seriously. There is a time to stop digging a hole for yourself, as the more you dig the deeper it gets.

To start off, you said that Widnes has never had an Australian coach. Fact.

I said that Widnes had had an Antipodean coach. Fact.

The fact that the two coaches who were not British did not do that well does not mean that an Australian coach would not do that well, either. There were no implications in what was said, no hidden meanings.

I do not want an Australian Coach for the very simple reason that I think that Aussie coaches and even those from the Antipodes, have brought it some things that I feel that we do not want in the British game, lying on in the tackle etc, and I think that we have pandered to the Australian style of play by introducing the non-competitive scrum and not allowing players to play he ball to themselves.

What we do need is another South African Forward.

You’re the one who’s digging yourself into a hole, in trying to justify a statement which you now admit was as totally meaningless as I asserted in my reply to it.

Australian coaches cannot change the rules on their own. This is something only the governing body, in conjunction with clubs, referees, players and coaches can influence. Whether we like it, or not, the game over here mirrors the game in Australia. At the end of the day the sport requires continuity, otherwise we could not have an international scene and World Club Challenges would be pointless. We need to be playing the sport exactly the same way for that to work. Having SL full of English coaches wouldn’t change this in any way.

I want what is best for Widnes. If that means that the coach is an English or an Aussie, it matters little. But all evidence points to requiring an Aussie coach if you want to be successful. We have to be pragmatic. We can’t afford to live in a fantasy world of idealism. That sort of nonsense would kill us. This is not the 1950's anymore!

I made a factual statement.

You tried to read something into it.

If I had wanted to state that antipodean coaches were rubbish, I would have done. I didn't.

And I do know the difference between Australia, New Zealand and Tasmania, which together form the Antipodes.

I am also aware of the date, the decade, and the century.

I have now ended this discussion and your pointless nitpicking.

Hello Peter.

No they dont, every point yo0u care to choose in all three of those places is a distinct Antipode

just like every other spot on earth

So you are saying that you have simply put forward a random fact, with no reference to what I had initially written about, concerning hiring an Aussie coach?

Here’s a random fact:
It took approximately 2.5 million blocks to build the Pyramid of Giza.

There it is. It is a fact, but it has little point in this discussion. If you put forward a fact or notion, it should have some meaning or relevance to what is actually being discussed. So which is it, meaningless tripe or an attempt to counter my thought on recruiting an Aussie coach?

It can only be either one or t’other. Simply saying that you have stated a fact tells us nothing. How is it relevant to the thread which was being discussed?

If it wasn’t relevant to anything being discussed, then why did you post it?

Do you go on message boards simply to post random facts, which have no meaning to what is being discussed?

Looking at the posts. In their true contexts, your initial post can only be seen as a slap down for suggesting that the club should look at going for an Aussie coach.






Why, on Earth, write this if it is not?

If it doesn’t mean that it isn’t worth hiring an Aussie , because he will be an antipodean, just like Endacott, then it is a meaningless and pointless statement.

With this in mind, everything I have written has been reasoned, with explanations of my rationale on the subject. All we’ve had from you is a series of strange nostalgic twaddle based on the premise that, because we’ve had a New Zealand coach that didn’t work out, everyone from the Antipodes should be similarly discounted. As this is clearly utter nonsense, I made my reply.

If you didn’t mean this then, it is a pointless thing to say. Either way, you’re the one digging your self ever deeper into that whole. Eventually, if you insist on carrying this argument on, you will come out in the aforementioned antipodes. While you’re there, see if there’s any decent Aussie coaches around that wouldn't mind trying their hand in Super league, with Widnes next season.




Enjoy the game and mind how you go.

I know you both think you have a point but you could save us any further crap by using the personal message function to continue your ing contest.

Whatever you say, boss!

I am moderator material.