For me has been outstanding lately. Really brushed up his defence and he's absolute nails. He outshone the rest of our back rowers last night in my opinion.

For too long he has been made a scapegoat (I never really rated him myself) as one of the first players that need to be shipped out for us to climb the table. Rubbish I say, he's well worth a squad place and at least leaves it all out on the field which cannot be said about some others. Isn't that all the Widnes faithful ever asked for?

Tackles hard but not big enough to break the line enough times.He also does stupid things like a Shoulder charge on Hardacker, and then we get penalised.He was in the goaline area, and they would have had to drop out and another 6 for Widnes.

I've seen him run some good lines that bust tackles. Compared to some of other forwards he's far more likely to, actually. He has often been found out of position in defence in the past, but I think he's tidied this up. Got to give him credit.

He also later tried another shoulder charge (which missed so was a waste of time and effort) luckily also missed by the match officials but not by the sky commentators...

The first one was put on report, plus, as mentioned above, instead of a Leeds drop out from under the posts they were given a penalty.

Have to disagree, richardviking, for me he isn't a long term prospect.

Unfortunately Poggie, he's nowhere near one of the worst members of our pack.

For me I'd have to agree and say that he is improving and I'm not quite as disappointed as I used to be when I saw his name in the 17. He's still relatively young and as Richard has pointed out he seems to be working on parts of his game such as his defence and running the angles. He did very well to break the line last night and he does have a decent bit of speed. I do think with a bit more development and strength conditioning he could be as handy as Dave Allen.
In terms of where he ranks amongst the other back rowers at the club I think I would still pretty much see all of them in the side ahead of him just at the moment and I include Chris Dean fairly high up that list and Lawton.

If Lawton would get Leuluai aggression I think he could be a top prospect.I will never knock Leuluai commitment but if we want to go up a level we need better players than him.A few look average like Pickgersgill,Kavs,White and Hock has not done much either.Definitely missing Joseph,Gerrard,and Cross in the props department.

He has improved slightly of late but come November I hope he is shown the door with a few others.

He would be a very good signing for quite a few clubs, but probably not SL clubs.

He needs more experience to match his commitment.

Perhaps a change of position might assist his development.

As I've said in Vikingman's thread about retentions, I would expect him to stay another year. He clearly has to be sat down and told to get his shoulder charge out of his game (he can still hit them with his chest with his arms open for the tackle as far as I know, but any contact with his arms crossed will cost him and us dear).

I think DB can see measurable progress in him this season and that coupled to the bags of effort he always puts in makes him a Betts sort of player who I suspect feels that he can kick on further next year. The game is so attritional that you need plenty of cover. Maybe they can beef him up a bit more and turn him into another Joseph?

Other than his shoulder charges he has played pretty well in his last few games. He may never develop beyong being a back up player but at least he brings something to the party now other than his enthusiasm.

We need to finish in the top 10 next season or were back in the championship. Players like leuluai, Isa, Pickersgill, O'carroll are just not good enough, they need to be replaced with quality. I can see all the other teams strengthening in the off season and we need to recruit better if we want to dine at the top table.

We have missed Ben Cross when has been injured. We need another two props like Big Ben to give us the strength in the pack.

Well we clearly are not going to get rid of all those players are we, O'Carroll has been playing well (OK he wore the wrong studs on Monday, but other than that he drives it in hard and we signed him on a decent contract last year, Pickersgill's form has dipped of late but again I think we have signed him up for a couple of years. Isa and Leuluai could go but I think Leuluai will stay another year and he has provided good cover.

Unfortunately barring Clarke we have missed a few old heads in the pack to keep everything calm when things are tight as OV has said Ben Cross' absence has cost us dear in a few games. If the rumour on the other thread that Carvell is going to the Bulls next year is true we desperately need to find someone of a similar calibre. I doubt that we will be in a position to attract a player of Ben Cross' experience from the NRL.

Lets get VIQI in to pay towards a experienced prop forward like Cross.Definitely missed his presence and Ashame the injuries has taken the Toll on the guy.You all might laugh but I also think we miss Alex Gerrards work rate.

It would be interesting to see what the metres made is for the likes of Ocarroll and Pickersgill.

No-one will laugh

as you are perfectly correct. He really is missed as his tackling is immense and he drives the ball forward all day.

He hasn't been charged by the Disciplinary Committee, penalty deemed sufficient punishment.

Pickersgil wasn't good enough for us in the championship let alone in the super duper league. Utter pants,his performace at weeds the other night was proof of that. Useless

Metres per game from Opta:

137 Rhys Hanbury
112 Patrick Ah Van
104 Hep Cahill
83 Paddy Flynn
83 Gareth Hock
83 William Isa
81 Jack Owens
81 Kevin Brown
78 Philip Joseph
76 Cameron Phelps
76 David Allen
72 Ben Cross
72 Eamon O'Carroll
69 Steve Pickersgill
68 Chris Dean
67 Alex Gerrard
67 Jon Clarke
66 Frank Winterstein
61 Lloyd White
61 Ben Kavanagh
53 Stefan Marsh
53 Adam Lawton
51 Joe Mellor
50 Ben Davies
44 Shaun Briscoe
40 Danny Craven
37 Macgraff Leuluai
33 Grant Gore
18 Tom Gilmore

New two year contract enxtension... make of that what you will.

I hope that Ben has got some contacts in OZ and can give the club the "heads up" on any players who may be available.

I'm sure I'm not the only one surprised by the contract extension, but there we go!
Leuluai and Isa were on their way out for me.

He's improved immensely in the last 6 weeks or so but I think the club should only have offered him a 1 year extension,it's clear DB sees some potential in the lad,I must admit I'm not convinced.

I am not convinced either but one thing i can praise the lad for is pure effort and commitment.His attitude is 100% and maybe this is what Betts likes in players.Well if this 2 year contract is not huge i suppose a ok squad player and hopefully improve his game furthur next year.Wish he was slightly bigger because has a heart of a lion.

Surprised at 2 years but not surprised he has been kept on. He is just the sort of player DB likes, fearless, bags of effort and showing clear signs of improvement. DB clearly feels he can make further progress that will outstrip any physical shortcomings.