I was present at the meeting on Monday along with 3 other supporters after an invite from Brian O'Connor. Julie Gaskell, SOC, BOC, Dennis Betts and Paul Cullen were also present. The meeting lasted about 2 and a half hours.
I will try and give a brief summary of what was said, I did not take any notes.
It started with a discussion of the teams poor performance and eventually came to the point of blaming the coaching set up. SOC was not happy with the criticism and some abuse dennis has received. It was stated that the reason we are in this position is because of the standard of squad we have managed to assemble. basically picking up players other teams dont want and taking a chance on others with a past history or injuries.
SOC stated that they had budgeted for 7000 members and we only have 4000 leaving a financial shortfall of which he has put in £400000 and he will not be doing so next season. He also stated that he may decide to walk away at some point in the future and if he did he would never come back, thats how he has dealt with previous interests.
SOC also stated that he wouldnt have Dennis bullied out and if he was, SOC would follow. He also stated if Dennis was dismissed and a new coach was brought in he would have to work with the same group of players and the chances were nothing may change. As there is no more money for new players this season.
It was also stated that there is a lot of good going on at Widnes behind the scenes, we stated that all we see as fans is the 80 mins on a sunday and some of these performances have been pretty dismal. The club suggested that maybe they need to get the message out of the things going on at the club behind the scenes and invite fans to training sessions etc. Also stated of the academy performance and recently beating Warrington. They are bringing local lads through who within 3 years time we be playing in key positions for Widnes.
Dennis explained that one of the problems we have is that some of the players are not mentally tough enough yet and they are working really hard with individual players to improve this.
I have not mentioned everything discussed but basically I went into the meeting wanting rid of Betts and Cullen but came away with a different attitude.
To try and give an overall summary, everyone at the club is as disappointed as the fans and working really hard to improve things. Its our first season in SL and we have a lot of catching up to do, we are going to build on the squad year on year. Adding more quality players next year and eventually bringing our youth through. We are using Huddersfield as a model club, they started from the bottom and worked their way up. we need to be patient as supporters and stay behind the club even though its tough at times.

I think they are spot on in a couple of places. Even if we brought the likes of Brian Noble in, he would still be dealing with the same set of players Dennis has. The team wouldn't increase alot imo. Its clear that we're stuck with Betts and protesting and abusing him will not only drive him away, but it may also push SOC further away.

I dont know what SOC wants us to do though. He's budgeted for 7000, we're currently getting 4,000, playing the worst rugby i have ever seen and bottom of the league. This wont improve from now until next season so stronghold members next year will be the same if not less than this year.

He has said he is not prepared next year to fund the losses we have made. If they dont think of a way to bring extra revenue into the club, SOC will be on his way.

Like he said though, they need to show the fans a lot more of the stuff thats going on behind the scenes, the good stuff because as far as all 4,000 of us are concerned its a club full of negativity at the moment.

Just to add, SOC also mentioned that they looked at a number of Aussie coaches to appoint as coach and mentor Betts. But they were not available, Tim Sheens was one and he said the time was not right at the moment but he said not to rule him out and maybe being involved with club in the future.
Also that the club is trying hard to build a culture and good working enviroment at the club which players and fans want be involved in.

Going to be a bit tricky stealing our own youth products!

The way i see it, I'd like to see Gore at least being introduced this year. We have Mullally and Cravem, two promsing players getting first team rugby. One of them wont be here next year.

I dont think that was part of the model.
Was mentioned about Mull though and they were disappointed in the way things have gone.

Is the squad as bad as Betts / SOC / PC make out? Continued public criticism of their ability is hardly going to help things improve. I don't think it's THAT bad when we're in good health myself.

Sadly the only way attendances will improve is if we challenge for the 8 / 6.

If we could put our best 13 out things would be a lot better, but we have no strength in depth.
I think we a really struggling in the forwards, real lack of any power in the props and lack some real workhorses tackling wise.
Plus as stated by the club we are relying on young lads who are not yet mentally tough enough to play 80 mins.
Agreed cannot see the crowds increasing for a while, but the club certainly dont need supporters turning their back on them or cancelling VSH.

Oh dear..."stealing"



You have a third rate under achiever in Cullen. You appoint a very poor head coach. The squad is poor though you had plenty of time to put it together + your conditioning is poor. Now your owner is alluding to pulling the pin.

Platitude machine Cullen goes on about contract offers, he focusses only on the short term money.

If you were a quality young player you may think another 2 years of Cullen's mindnumbing cliches, mediocre coaching from betts + poor physical development in a losing environment is not the best way to build a career.

Steve O'connor is making a huge error relying on the likes of cullen, terry o'c and betts. Relying on numpties is not part of the huddersfield model. Over 10 years ago they used psychometric tests and professional recruitment methods - to get a relatively unknown Tony Smith. I suspect Cullen et al have used more old fashioned methods.

Not what was said on monday, they are using the latest technology to measure speed, impact etc. Each player is also continually individually assesed and coached.
As for developing young players Mull was sent to Oz with the Broncos personally paid for by SOC.
I think the big problem is some of our youngsters are being thrown in at the deep end because of injuries, rather being brought in gradually.

I would bet good money Cullen did not say they used pschometric testing as part of the Betts selction process!

the problem is the people doing the assessing and coaching, they are not up to it.

i am not trying to score poits here. Widnes is a great club with some teriific supporters and with a great owner. When Ken Davy took over the Giants his CEo was out of his depth and the Head coaching was garry Schofield

(a mile worse than Betts). Schoey signed too many poor players on 3 year deals. Once davy got a few smarer people on the board and recruited a good CEO and a good coach things improved significantly.

The danger is that Widnes are emulating salford rather than the Giants....Wilkinson relies far too much on the judgements of steve sims and then seems routinely disappointed when things flop....but keeps sims.

Either way, clubs are not supposed to approach any contracted player until September. If this turns out to be true, then there needs to be am inquiry at the RFL and SOC should take legal action.

It is an RFL issue rather than legal



But an inquiry would be a great idea. they can also explore why so many players who have not played in the NRL in 2011 were allowed over here. Especially ones with such poor personal discipline histories. the rfl could then explain why these journeymen are adding nothing to our league. etc etc. And lets have an enquiry every time a player does not want to stay with 3rd rate coaches and second rate conditioners.

And check out agents who advise their players that they can get better career development elsewhere, how dare they

You can tell them what you like, but not until September. To do so before is disgraceful and against the laws of the sport. It would be a legal matter, if the club decide that it should be. As it is only a rumour at the moment, I'll leave it at that.

All the other stuff you go on about here isn't really relevant to the discussion.

''He also stated if Dennis was dismissed and a new coach was brought in he would have to work with the same group of players and the chances were nothing may change. As there is no more money for new players this season''.


So why was Ste McCormack sacked?That's the chance you take on a change of coach unless you want to take a chance the other way and risk more and more humiliation with fewer and fewer people attending.If every chairman followed that philosophy there would never be changes. Graeme West would still be Widnes coach,Billy Benyon at Saints,Tony Barrow at Wire and Graeme Taylor in charge of the England football team.I am not sure from who or where this figure of 7000 came from either,we only averaged 6600 over four years last time in SL and the club have said the players are crap and not what was wanted so obviously they expected to struggle so why disappointment at the support?A head chef wouldn't dish up lousy food and still expect the restaurant to be full..

I feel exactly the same. I cannot, for the life of me, see any reasoning in any of this. It's so poor that it's laughable. I just think it's getting harder and harder for the club to justify the current situation and they are now falling over themselves with endless contradictions, bull and pointless finger wagging at the fans.

Agents can speak to their players at any time. It is neither disgraceful nor against the 'laws of the sport' . Agents can speak to clubs whenever they like. clubs can say to an agent that when player X is out of contract they would be interested. If the player is good then several clubs will say it. No 'laws of the sport' broken.

As for it being September...



the notion of running to lawyers over such an issue is laughable. It is an RFL issue.

Watching Cullen wet himself over his abject failure to retain a player is comical. No doubt the buck will stop...elsewhere.

Of far greater concern for Widnes fans should be SOC saying he will not put in the 400K next year while sticking with cullen and betts. That will mean a weaker squad and another dire season ...with the prospect of him walking away.

If you say so.

Possibly best post ive read on here trying to blame lack of support , what does soc want at least neil kelly got a mixed squad of players lesser known Aussies apart from steve carter and players from the champinship and gelled as a team ! if they gave free season tickets to all the schools in widnes and to be accumpanied by an adult why not try it speculate to accumalate they may get 7-8000 per game sell food merchandise etc . No disrepect to soc he made the desicions to keep an under performing team and headcoach from last year so is it the players or the coach steve i think more so the coach my self !

I agree 100% pepe

Been Thinking about this one ! so SOC is basically saying hes walked away from other buisness then thats not been a sucess then ! well what if his Transport Buisness was going down the pan hes basically saying hell support his managers and not axe them but go down with them and walk away just like that !Sorry why not Just Say it that Widnes vikings been a bad investment then ! But if you walk the walk remember you Employed these Employees and the Book stops with YOU not the supporters !

''It was stated that the reason we are in this position is because of the standard of squad we have managed to assemble. basically picking up players other teams dont want and taking a chance on others with a past history or injuries.''


That would explain why we only have two wins so far.What it doesn't explain though is the margin of the defeats.They are professional RL players,many with lots of experience in SL,some with NRL experience too.I don't believe they cannot master a basic of the game such as tackling.The problem I believe is the structure and organisation of the defence as a whole unit,not the individuals ability in this area.

Spot on, Chief!

I think you will find that simply isn't the case and complete bull is being spouted here.

A players representative is not permitted to speak about any matters concerning his player to any other club unless permitted to do so by the club he is currently under contract with. Regardless of whether it is the player's agent or the player themselves that do this before that permission is given or the free-agent deadline passes this constitutes tapping up for which there are severe penalties including fines.
Even an indirect inducement through the media can be construed as 'tapping up'. So all this... so and so can speak to so and so nonsense is complete bull. If Widnes have not given their permission then they have a right to seek compensation. Compensation is due anyhow due to the age of the player.

Afraid it is the case. The agent as a rep of the player can indicate the duration of a contract. and a club can say they would be interested in players when their contract expires. Unless there is a clause in the contract to the contrary then players , like many people, are free to tell others what they earn. Deny it as much as you like.

If Cullen and Betts do not know who is OOC in 2013 Widnes are pretty well doomed.