He could have stopped at "We didn't do anything..."

Kind of loses the point he was making though.

Who do you drop for the Wakey game, based on last night could be a few?

Sneyd, but we have no one else
Logan but we have no one else

I'd certainly look to bring in Reece Dean who has a bit of zip about him, in place of Abdul who looked lost last night.

Good post for me!!

Give Reece a go. Naughton and maybe even Lancaster. Green in for watts and put frank back on the bench

Perhaps he felt he should start and perhaps he thought he could do a better job than the starting forwards and perhaps our coach didn't agree and perhaps he was left on so we could all see what he could do. But that's only my thoughts of course and perhaps they are a bit scewed as I'm b*ggered this morning! He was certainly on much too long for me however! Ellis the only one who came out of it with any credibility for me I'm afraid!

He should have played Yeaman in the Centres . Carlos to standoff .
Abdull now where near ready.

Yeaman had concussion and had a mandatory 7 days off otherwise he might have!

Rather than posting straight after the game last night, in a state of utter embarrassment and disappointment after what I'd just watched, I thought I'd sleep on it in an effort to make a more balanced post. But even this morning it's pretty difficult. No Hull FC side should ever have 46 points put past them, it's simply unacceptable.

I think last night was a combination of two things;

- Firstly, most of the players were awful. Some really lazy defence, one side of the line moving up and the other static, shirt-pulling, awful reads. Attack was sloppy, kicking game almost non-existent, slow and easy to read plays.

- Secondly, I think our tactics have been figured out by the opposition. The first two games we were an unknown quantity to a degree & streamrolled Salford & Catalans. But since then, sides have realised they aren't beating us up the middle and are getting their fast men on the ball more, spreading the ball wide, kicking early etc, and I don't think we have a plan B. That's down to Radford & his coaching team.


I said before the season starts that I give Radford until after Easter Monday, which would be 8 games in (Salford, Cats, Cas, Wigan, Widnes, Wakey, Rovers & Warrington), a third of the regular season. That's a pretty favourable fixture list to start the season, and we should be looking at a 6 wins.

Obviously 6 wins from 8 is unachievable now, and Radford doesn't have the excuse of a decimated squad hit by injuries like Hudds, Rovers or Leeds.

Do we do what Rovers did, cut our losses and get rid now, or do we persevere for 3/4 more games and see if Radford & the players can regain some form? I think Pearson will do the latter. Jake summed the situation up at the start of the thread, if Radford does go, you can guarantee Richard Horne will be coach at least until the end of the season.

Fair points made there

Good post . Sums it up . Found out , caught Salford and Cats cold .
No playmaker , no plan B . Old Bradford Bulls tactics won't cut it .

The only slight caveat I'd make is that Ellis explicitly stated that they failed to follow Radford's plan for last night. Now whether he meant tactics or something else I don't know but the players are clearly not doing what Radford wants them to do for some reason. That's not absolving Radford of responsibility, just shifting the focus of his failure slightly.

Spot on that's exactly what Hull need to. Total clear out including Last and Horne and conditioner. Bring in a good coach temporary while we bide our time for the right one to come along.

It appeared to me that the game plan was good, but we couldn't stick to it. Whether it was the disallowed tries or the nature of sucker punch response tries to those decisions, we could see the game plan unravel in front of our eyes. We just CANNOT stick to the plan once we are rattled.....and then we look extremely ordinary.

But its the nature of the defeat that is so hard to take, especially after the huge early feel good factor which makes it even harder to take and understand.
The nature of this defeat will have pressed Pearsons worry button. He's got the future of the club in his hands and a lot of his cash too so he'll be looking at things from a different perspective to us.
I'm sure he'll have Radders in the office to let him know how the land lies, he'll be given targets to achieve to save his job.
Its serious.
I believe Pearson via Motu will be sounding out the Market even now. I believe Radford needs 2 wins from 3 , it may even require 3 from 3 to give himself a chance. Radders is in last chance saloon at the moment.

His game plan has stops working too easily, I think theres more to this than meets the eye. The club amazingly has found itself at a crossroads of its own making, 3 games ago heroes, 3 games later zero's. This could really only happen at Hull FC.

The results and performances will show us whether he has lost the dressing room or not. If he's lost them we'll have a new coach in place by May. I don't think Pearson will hang around.
I believed Radders was good enough to lead us to Silverware and believed we had a team to bring back the glory days, but the evidence is perhaps that despite the early promise, maybe the players are not so sure he's the man to do this. If this proves to be the case Pearson will surely act.
The jury is now out for me on whether the players are good enough, I still think they can be, but something most odd has happened to this group, who looked the "real deal" as Cookie said after the Cats game.
Its a funny old game.

Fair enough, I've not read/watched much fallout from last night's game yet, other than Radford's interview on Sky.

Simple play Tuimavave at 6 because that's were he will play next year fact. Bring in Yeamo at centre.

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but the sky commentary on sky last night was complete rubbish. Obviously it wasn't made easier to put up with being in a foul mood with our performance but next time I think I will put it on mute. In Australia the commentary actually refers to the game rather than gossip and bollux chit chat. A bit OT but just thought I'd add some more negativity to the debate

On the club website just a report of the game, no grovelling or anything yet. Does that say anything to you?

Also Denis Betts saying he'd never let the players lock him out of the dressing room

I

were about to see the end of Radford.

There are numerous issues for me as to why we are failing:

1 - Jamie Shaul. I like him as a full back, great under the high ball (excluding last night) and dangerous in broken play. However, he is never a pivot and very rarely picks the money ball. Look at Hanbury last night for an example of how a full back should be used (if using them as a pivot) - with this in mind, the overlap needs to be created further infield to give Shaul a 3 v 2 as he wont create it himself

2 - Halves. They don't attack the line. In the Derby friendly, Sneyd and Pryce especially were taking it to the line with option runners either side, Sneyd passes far too far from the defence giving them time to set. Sneyd also doesn't pick the correct pass time and time again (should have given it to Frank in the Cas game, 5 yards out instead of out the back to Shaul)

3 - Backs as Forwards, Forwards as Backs - We use our backs far too much for getting us away from our line and they are used for strength as opposed to speed, elusiveness, and finishing attributes. Last night Sneyd ran right with the ball in the 2nd half, and there wasn't a centre or a winger there as they had been used for the first 2 tackles of the set and were still catching up with play. Last night we were also using the forwards far too much in their 20. It worked with Frank, but teams do cotton on to things and defended that threat time after time. People like Ellis and Taylor were taking the half back role and then giving it to another forward on their line!! Where are the set moves, the half back creating things - just watch Kevin Brown at the touchscreen with Jon Wells to see what a half should be doing, looking at numbers, retreating defenders etc to see what we need.

4 - Discipline. Shocking, simply put. Watts will give 3 penalties away a game, even Ellis did last night (but forgiven due to his work rate and tackle intensity which never drops)

5 - Bench Rotation - again is very poor. Last night, the Kevin Brown dummy and go try targeted a tired defender in Manu - who didn't slide across. When the kicker was lining the conversion up, you could hear over the microphone "Sika Manu set" - which I assume was said in the Widnes drinks huddle. From the kick off, they ran at Manu, or the space either side of him for 3 or 4 tackles, with good go forward and made easy yards. Why we cannot identify when a players intensity has dropped and fatigue has set in I don't know. I appreciate he is a big player for us, but he will be better utilised if he isn't fatigued as hell


They are just a few of our flaws, there are many. But all will be fine again with a win against Wakefield

You're not wrong Dave. The Sky 'commentary' is basically a few mates watching a game of rugby having a chat and arguments between themselves like a load of fans in a pub.

Listening to Doyle Davidson isn't any better. Last weeks Wigan 'commentary' included such pearlers as;
Man Friday has the ball (not once but every time) that's Manfredi to you and I
Can't be bothered to even finish saying Tuimuvave's name...just ends halfway through a mumble.
The Doyle Davidson bingo was a full house, the most annoying being "you're missing nothing here" wtf, clearly there waa something going on but you can't describe it
He is too old and cannot fathom half the players he mistook One of the forwards (Bowden i think) for Shaul, previously Micheals as Shaul. nor keep up with play and actually commentate..it's awful.
Still, chin up it could be worse..lol

After the first two games I have seen no evidence of any positive influence from the coach at all. I am sure he played in a big part in pre season preparation but since then I do not think he has a clue regarding adapting tactics to suit the opposition.
Having said that I bet that Dennis Betts win/loss record is not that good overall since becoming a first team coach but at least he has spent some time learning his trade as an assistant coach etc and, crucially, he has some talent alongside side him in Cassidy and, particularly Brett Hodgson, a former Man of Steel. Look he we have got.
That is not to let Radford off the hook at all. Personally I am fed up of paying for his coaching apprenticeship. He should do the honest thing and go.

Thing that gets me the most is that they never seem to know who any of the players are, so much last night was like, "is that talanoa?", "and, is that Pritchard, with the ball?" Basically found myself doing the correct commentary in my head.

Although not perfect, I feel that this has improved this year, last night he gave a good ball to Talanoa, who then dropped the ball, a quicker winger, would ahve had less pressure on him and scored that try.

Agree on all other points, I still think there is a good halfback in Sneyd, but he needs more confidence and have a partner playing with him (Not at the other side of the park) Mellor and Brown play together and it makes a difference.

Interview with Scott Taylor on FC Live:

“We’ve got a lot of new boys, me being one of them this year, and we had a really good tough pre-season. That means absolutely nothing right now and only we can change this.”

He continued: “It has nothing to do with Lee Radford, Andy Last, the conditioners or anyone else. They are all doing a brilliant job and we are letting them down, the fans down and the club down.

“It’s on the players’ heads and we’ll be striving to put that right next week.”