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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"No youth policy? 3 of the burgess boys, bateman, whitehead, kopzcack to name a few who wouldn't look out of place in any SL team'"
And they are where?
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| Good point that. The two or three players per year who were coming through the academy into the first team now being elsewhere refutes any notion that there was ever a youth policy.
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| Quote ="Diablo1967"And they are where?'"
I'm going to assume that your point is that Bradford didn't exclusively stick with the youth they developed and had the temerity to sign players from outside the club? Like pretty much every other side in SL?
All the players that JTP listed chose to leave the club or were sold due to financial constraints during the recent crises. None were binned off in favour of external signings.
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| Quote ="ccs"Interesting article, which didn't stay on the Bradford website for long......
Quote ="Bulls website"31st January 2014
BRADFORD BULLS officials have this afternoon announced that the club will not suffer a points deduction, as a result of its former operating company entering administration.
OK Bulls Ltd was placed into administration this morning but the club has since been purchased by Bradford Bulls 2014 Ltd.
And, on behalf of the new board of directors, chairman Mark Moore has confirmed that the Bulls are to remain a First Utility Super League side and will start the new season on zero points.'" '" Sounds like this mis-timed announcement is about to cause a minor earthquake.
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| Quote ="ccs"Sounds like this mis-timed announcement is about to cause a minor earthquake.'"
Why?
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"Why?'" Rumour has it there's an "exclusive" in tomorrows papers.
Based on Moore being told/not told by the RFL/not the RFL that Bradford would/would not lose any points for going into administration.
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"Why?'"
As mentioned elsewhere, it looks like one or more of the RL papers is likely to claim that somebody assured BB2014 that no points penalty would be applied and then went back on that promise following pressure from other clubs.
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| Quote ="Kosh"As mentioned elsewhere, it looks like one or more of the RL papers is likely to claim that somebody assured BB2014 that no points penalty would be applied and then went back on that promise following pressure from other clubs.'"
Shouldn't have promised it.
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| Quote ="fc baldy"Shouldn't have promised it.'"
Quite. The whole thing is a farce from start to finish. Not over yet, either.
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| Quote ="Kosh"Quite. The whole thing is a farce from start to finish. Not over yet, either.'"
Isn't the crux of the issue that Red Hall judge the competition stronger with Bradford in it so provided inappropriate levels of support and latitude to make it happen. Restoring parity means poor Bulls management = administration and/or relegation. Tough, but fair. Question is what the hell they do with Odsal. Unfit for purpose and a financial disaster.
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| Quote ="Kosh"Quite. The whole thing is a [ufarce[/u from start to finish. Not over yet, either.'"
Absolutely. If it was not quite so sad, the catalogue of disaster could almost inspire awe. Everything the RFL has tried to do has backfired and made things worse. I try to think the best of people and I'm sure they meant well at every step. And with one or two exceptions (the suggestion of a mini-licensing round, springs to mind, but it was at least only a suggestion), at the time I could see an argument for each choice they made. Yet, with hindsight, without exception, they'd have been better doing the opposite to what they actually did do.
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"Isn't the crux of the issue that Red Hall judge the competition stronger with Bradford in it so provided inappropriate levels of support and latitude to make it happen. Restoring parity means poor Bulls management = administration and/or relegation. Tough, but fair. Question is what the hell they do with Odsal. Unfit for purpose and a financial disaster.'"
That's one part of it, certainly. Another is that the 'support' maybe actually made things worse in some situations.
A story I've heard (it might not be true, but as it doesn't reflect badly on anybody's intentions so I don't think it is libellous), is that when the payment went through on the lease, Hood-era Bradford's (understandably nervous) bank cut their overdraft immediately, so the club's cash flow crisis wasn't eased at all. You will know better than me if this is possible, but supposedly Bradford then had to pay tax on the sale! I'm slightly dubious about whether the bank could do that. But if true, although the Bulls were then less indebted, their liquidity crisis was actually heightened.
Then backing Khan's newco to the hilt, but having to bribe the other clubs with half his Sky cash to get it through, thus simultaneously undermining the thing they'd binned licensing for, is a matter of record.
Odsal. It is only the lease - I don't know if that is better or worse. Worse probably. They should be able to sell it or at very least give it away, if the very worst happened. Not a great return on investment, if it's the latter admittedly.
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| They could use odsal for landfill and make a fortune
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| Quote ="Mild Rover"
A story I've heard (it might not be true, but as it doesn't reflect badly on anybody's intentions so I don't think it is libellous), is that when the payment went through on the lease, Hood-era Bradford's (understandably nervous) bank cut their overdraft immediately, so the club's cash flow crisis wasn't eased at all. You will know better than me if this is possible, but supposedly Bradford then had to pay tax on the sale! I'm slightly dubious about whether the bank could do that. But if true, although the Bulls were then less indebted, their liquidity crisis was actually heightened.
'"
That is exactly what happened, and a major (if not sole) reason for Hood getting out the begging bowl. Basically he thought he'd had a eureka moment when realising he could sell the Odsal lease to the RFL, and in one transaction clear the club's debts and raise a few hundred grand on top.
But what this nimrod failed to see was that the lease to Odsal (it's a long lease, so is classed as an asset on the balance sheet) was being used as security on the bank overdraft. He sold the bloody security on the club's borrowings!
Needless to say, the bank withdrew their funding almost immediately and we were up a certain creek without a paddle, as they say.
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| Quote ="Mild Rover"Then backing Khan's newco to the hilt, but having to bribe the other clubs with half his Sky cash to get it through, thus simultaneously undermining the thing they'd binned licensing for, is a matter of record.'"
What appears to have happened there is that the other clubs were mightily hacked off at the secret £700k loan followed up by the Odsal purchase and were holding out for Bradford to be ejected from SL. OK came up with the cash offer as a way of effectively buying a one-year SL licence. He clearly underestimated the financial impact - just read the statements from the OK management at the time.
Quote ="Mild Rover"Odsal. It is only the lease - I don't know if that is better or worse. Worse probably. They should be able to sell it or at very least give it away, if the very worst happened. Not a great return on investment, if it's the latter admittedly.'"
From what I understand, the lease has a central requirement that the Bulls have to play there. No Bulls, no lease. Which makes it a massive potential liability should the Bulls fold or otherwise cease to be able to play there.
This fiasco has many more twists to play out yet.
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| Marwan Koucash's fortune is self-made. There's no reason why he might not have an independently wealthy brother, but it isn't like they come from money, like oil rich sheikhs or something.
A (notably nameless) Koucash brother was rumoured to be interested in Rovers at one point too.
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| Quote ="Mild Rover"Marwan Koucash's fortune is self-made. There's no reason why he might not have an independently wealthy brother, but it isn't like they come from money, like oil rich sheikhs or something.
A (notably nameless) Koucash brother was rumoured to be interested in Rovers at one point too.'"
To be honest I haven't really taken much notice of Koukash in the past, but looking into his life story I have a new found respect for the guy for what he went through as a kid and the fact that he has self made.
It could be quite conceivable that his family were involved in his business ventures, it is often the case that family hold senior positions in self made companies.
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| could be a case of koukash own money under the disguise of his brothers 'ownership'
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| Quote ="number 6"could be a case of koukash own money under the disguise of his brothers 'ownership''"
Thought about that, but not a good outcome for anybody. The RFL just couldn't risk one party having control at two clubs. You would assume they would rigorously investigate a possible conflict.
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| Quote ="FCFaithful Stu"Thought about that, but not a good outcome for anybody. The RFL just couldn't risk one party having control at two clubs. You would assume they would rigorously investigate a possible conflict.'"
Didn't stop the Hetheringtons......
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| Didn't the koukash brothers both make there money from horse racing ?
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| There's a link [url=http://retro.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?p=17734184&tsmp=1393876588#p17734184here[/url to a copy of a news article released by Moore & Co.
I must say that of the two parties involved I would tend to side on the RFL, but only time will tell.
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| Looks like Mrs Koukash is making a bid for Bradford.
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| Hope she succeeds, would pi$$ Hetherington off if nothing else. Another rebel to join the ranks!
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