I think there needs to be a balance. I'm certainly not against signing the best starting 17 we can and relying more on youngsters, but, IMO, if you're going to do that you need at least a couple of players like Whiting or Aspinwall about the place. Whiting in particular has shown he can play more or less any position to a competent standard. If you're going to plough most of your salary cap into the first 17, players like that are a huge asset when the inevitable injuries start to bite. Particularly if you're signing 32-year-old forwards on 2-3 year deals.

I'd certainly be keen to shed players like Turner and Burnett if it meant bringing better quality into the first 17, but I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water and lose [iall[/i our experienced SL-standard cover.

I also think people are a little harsh on our current squad. They're inconsistent at the moment, certainly, but they've shown they can match the big teams with a very committed performance against Warrington. If we get O'Carroll and Heremaia fit (may have spelt both of those incorrectly) and start to gel a little more in attack, I think we will at least be in with a realistic chance of beating the top teams on a given day. What the current squad probably won't do is beat the top teams on a consistent basis.

I did chuckle at the Rovers highlights the other day. His defence is pap.



Agreed. Calls for Turner to be back in the side are baffling.

I don't think signing a player of his calibre is the issue, but more about the position he plays in.

It's a system which hasn't done Saints any harm.

I did chuckle at the Rovers highlights the other day. His defence is pap.

ye he looked really pap in the pre season friendly at kc where he ran the show!

Running the show has got what to do with his defence? Btw he never!!

I do remember his delightful attempt at catching a high ball which gifted us a try though.

Although I thought he had a decent game at 6 against us that day , You knew at some stage he'd show us his circus act.

www.weststigersforum.com/forum/v ... 12&t=11325

www.weststigersforum.com/forum/v ... 12&t=11325

His salary is allegedly enough to cover the signing of Sonny Bill to replace him, Might just squeeze him in on that 60k?

Thoroughly agree about this aspect of the impact of Martin.

Is Turner a victim of being another talented youngster being stagnated by Agar? Worth another season to see?

Rubbish. You surely can't be that shortsighted?

Ellis will sign for one of the West Yorkshire Clubs. If Leeds want him he will go back there.
Our chances are very slim unless he is made a massive offer by us.

No disrespect, but I strongly think you are very wrong. To say Turner has done [inothing[/i wrong is incredibly far from accurate.

Firstly, watch back some of last year and pay close attention to Turner waving at the players outside him as the attacking players cruise through the gap next to him.
Secondly, notice that this happened irrespective of whether it was Sharp or Whiting playing outside him at the time. Also - again irrespective of which player it happened to be in any given game - notice how far infield he often found himself, dragging the rest of the line with him and causing the winger to either be isolated or with too much space on his outside (or both).
Thirdly, the Bradford preseason game. Whilst the only try did come from a Martin loose pass, it was very noticeable that whilst Martin was on the pitch they didn't otherwise get a sniff of any joy down our right, but in the 2nd half whilst Turner was on they ripped us open down there several times. Sharp played the full 80, so it wasn't him that made the difference.
And finally, Seymour didn't even play in the Warrington game, yet our right side defence still looked much more solid. The only problems they posed on that side were caused by Waterhouse against Nicklas, which is understandable, and a McKinnon/Tickle error.

Yes, he scores tries. But he also costs us a fair few as well as a lot of field position. I'll be genuinely interested if you think any of the above points are untrue, or still maintain that they don't add up to Turner doing anything wrong. Please explain why if so, though, rather than just saying you disagree.

Ellis is a top player if we want to be treat as a serious threat then we have to go for players like ellis

exactly, a player of his quality could bring so much to our game and he will hopefully have a lot of experience to pass onto our younger players after playing in the NRL

I didn't realise signing one player was the only barrier to Hull FC's world domination.

Ellis is a great player, but we have more pressing needs.

yes i totally agree with his defence not been upto scratch but tbf the defence last year was shocking cant really jus single anyone player out yes sharp came off his wing and yes turner dragged him in but the whole defence got dragged in last year on numerous occasions you can only do what they guy inside of you does i suppose otherwise you leave gaps imo i would still like to see what he can do other than playing martin every game turner is another utility player i dnt think his best position is centre but quicker and stronger than martin im sure gentle could sort his defence out and give him a couple of games it wont happen anyway because its always going to be experience 1st

Don't think anyone said that ,would be a statement of intent along with the fact he is a very good english player

I agree that we should be trying to sign players [ilike[/i Ellis. I don't necessarily agree that this means we should try to sign Ellis though.

Tend to agree with this

Really? Because you did:



I agree that it's not just down to one player that our right hand side was weak last year, but I do think there are differing levels of culpability. Turner scores highly on that scale IMO.



Kind of my point. Last year it tended to be Turner doing more of the drifiting infield to cause the gaps. Gentle did give him a fair crack in preseason. He actually got more game time than Martin, he just simply wasn't as good and hadn't improved his defence any since last year. Martin has the position on merit based on the games played so far, so I don't personally see how you can say:



and then call for Turner to be picked ahead of Martin.

Yes a stand off , right centre and winger. And a rougha**e prop!

Possibly 2.

Anyone who thinks Ellis would sign for Hull unless we threw a shedload of cash at him is living in cloud cuckoo land. warrington or leeds are the only 2 clubs who are in with a shout and I doubt he'll end up at leeds