we only have to look back to last season to see that he's no good as one of the halves. if we're not too unlucky with injuries then i don't think there'll be a space for him in any position. certainly not as a forward now our pack has bulked up with the like of Fitz and Ogre.

i'm tempted to agree that he'll end up like tommy lee etc. another also-ran. i'm sure he'll be an asset to some team just not us this year.

he'll get game time this year, its a long season and we, more than most teams know, need as many bodies as possible

a bench spot covering both hooker and fitz should be looked at as houghton doesnt seem to have that buzz about him this year, is he stayin on the bench too long? difficult one with berro playing so well

If he cant get in the side then surely he is better going on loan to a championship side. Hall going to Widnes seemed to have improved him.

For the sake of his development he needs to move on, we don't have any recent history of making world class youngsters into world class players.
Were no good at it, simple.

With the likes of T. Lee there was always the fact of his attitude etc. It's happening now with Houghton, 3 years he's been around the first team and has only got progressively less effective and is light years away from being able to take over from Berrigan.
People applaud our youth system, well all I see is excellent young talent being turned into average plodders.

I would eb tempted to send him out on laon, there is no point in him playing in the under 20's. He is also too good for the NL IMO. Someone like Salford or Quins would be a good loan move for him.

Not sure where we can fit him in at the moment.

None of the impact hookers have much of an influence in these conditions. He'll be much more effective when the grounds harden up. I think this is true for a few others as well - Washy and Moa spring to mind.

Hall was always that good, he just played under a coach that played him in his best position. Sending Washy to the NL's will do him no good at all.

Simple fact is if you want to be a top four club Washbrook isn't going to be a starting 13 player, if he's happy being a squad player then so be it I'd be happy with that.

However he is a decent squad player but why is it like others have said we get young players who seem like the next big thing only to fizzle out?

A major problem we seem to have at our club is not knowing where to play players. I'm not blaming Agar we seem to have a habit of doing it. Any young halfback coming through gets changed into a hooker. Graeme Horne played centre, halves, loose forward, and 2nd row. many other players have been the same. Even Richard Horne after all this time we don't seem sure of his best position?

Look at Leeds, players who have developed with them, do you really hear of these moving positions? Yeah they might have the odd game but you can label them with a set position, McGuire, Burrows, Diskin, Sinfield. I have no doubt if we had Ryan Hall come through our academy he'd have played, wing, centre, full back and 2nd row.

Hall's confidence was shot and that's why the move worked so well for him.

IMO Washbrook could become a top player but I do fear we will lose him as we have too much depth in that position. I think he is much better than people give him credit for but with Manu, Tickle and Fitz in the back three it's tough for him.

washbrook is only an ordinary player, its about time we stopped churning out run of the mill players and really concentrate on our stars of the future.he,s had is chance i have never been convinced probably had about five good games for hull. also agree about danny houghton think agar made a boob when letting josh hodgson leave

Washbrook was a starting 13 player in 2006 and 2007 when you finished 2nd and 4th respectively aswell as reaching a Grand Final..

I'd be intersted to know why people think Danny Houghton is playing so badly. I've called for him to possibly be dropped but that isn't because he has been poor, just that Berrigan is probably the best hooker in Superleague and needs to be on the field as much as possible. Houghton has caused problems with his speed from dummy half and has tackled well, he just doesn't have the creativity of Berro yet.

If Tickle goes next season we should move Fitz to SR and play Washy at LF, if Fitz goes then its a straight swap imo.

He's never going to play in the half's again unless we have an crisis at H/B , And he's well down the list to play 13. The only position he could play this season is maybe 9 if Houghton or Berro gets injured . Other than that , The loan option looks likely.

He'd make a very good championship player but he doesn't offer enough at this level. He's far too slow for the halves and seems to only be able to pass and move in one direction. LF would be his position but where is he in the pecking order, it's clear for anyone to see that Whiting is by far a better footballer and he should play there before DW if and when Fitz leaves. Happy to keep him in the squad if we get a dearth of injuries in the back row but that's it.

don't know why ppl have a problem with washbrook or houghton at this point of the season

they are still young and would need plenty of game time to develop into first choice SL players. perhaps they are off-colour right now but you don't turn crap overnight

Think Washy has been very unlucky with both injuries and Agars preference of playing a third prop at 13.
Hopefully he will play LF when Fitz misses a game.
I personally would have him on the bench ahead of Houghton.

He's not playing badly as such he just isn't that good a player and certainly not as good as some on here make him out to be.

As for Washbrook. Whilst we have a coach that prefers the safety first approach and keeping things tight down the middle Washbrook will have very limited opportunities in the pack. Unless we have several injuries I cant see him being used in the backs either so I dont see where his game time is coming from this year which is only going to hinder his progress. Perhaps a loan to another SL club is the answer?

True.

The problem is, if Agar wants to keep the "safety first" formation then he'll not see any need to develop Washbrook in a more creative mould, so he may not see any value in loaning him out.

Maybe in a few months when our position in the table has been consistent (as in after 10 games or so) the club will look at the value of loaning players out, or even allowing them to go on dual contracts.

Absolute tosh.

I just think he is so far down the pecking order now that even with several injuries he wont get a game so rather than us paying a player that needs gametime to sit in the stands, we might as well get some of his wages paid and give him the chance of some gametime.

I don't disagree, I just cannot see anyone being loaned out until the shape of the season has become clearer.

Hes a plodder, little speed, one show and go and thats his game over
good squad player if he is happy to have that berth but a starter?? no

Not sure that this actually applies to Washy, but imo the club all too often seem to bulk players up too much. It seems to me that in the past if we have a young kid with a bit of pace who is a good winger or , we bulk them up, they lose their pace and end up a 2nd row. If we have a young creative half back we again bulk them up so much that they lose some of their creativity and again end up in the 2nd row or at loose man.

I would suggest Tommy Lee and Graeme Horne as examples of this.