I agree it won't be easy, but I can't get my head around the fact that picking Hall ahead of G Horne could be the difference. If we are at all serious about top 6 and playoff semis as a minimum (which is what we should be aiming for IMO), surely we should be at least 12-14 points better than them with the team we can put out regardless of Hall v Horne?

2 points in the next game is always the front of mind target that hopefully by the end of the season will mean you hit your long term target. I agree that in the 3-5 year plan Craig Hall will figure, but if you put that long term cap on again why is it essential he fits into Hulls team now? You talk long term re our plan but then very short termist in regards to Hall!



As you, Hall could be the difference between winning and losing. He may have the effect on us that we lose as well as win.

I firmly believe Hall has a future, i also believe he is under enormous pressure from people saying he is the answer and needs to play. Im hoping Agar is going to hold him back for a limited number of games to allow him to break into the team without the pressure.

It's not essential he's a regular, but if he isn't going to get a run out against the likely wooden-spooners, when is he? I'm talking mid- to long-term about Hall as well. He's not entirely ready yet, but is at the stage where he will learn no more without playing in the first team.



I have serious doubts about that. Just how bad do you think his defence is to single-handedly cost us a game we should be looking to win relatively comfortably?



Hall probably does have a future in the game, but if he is left out for most of the season even against the weaker sides I doubt it will be at Hull. He needs to play IMO, but not because he's the answer, rather that he needs the experience to learn. Another season in the 21's will achieve nothing for either him or the club.

You say yourself he should be brought in with less pressure, surely next week should be one such game?

Why will there be less pressure next week? Celtic are a good team and will do us if we arent up for it.

Agree 100%, all the pressure was put on him last season with PS giving him the # 4 shirt and declaring him to be a class act and he is the future, his defensive frailty increased that pressure from the fans perspective.

Who knows how his defence has developed during the close season, 'the proof of the pudding' so to speak can only be tested in games against the teams that we are expected to perform well against. The theory of leaving him out on last seasons performances is a totally blinkered one, give him a fair go, the lack of column inches and the understating from the club could possibly help him, I for one believe hi defence will have improved with the new coaching we have now as seen on Friday night.

Absolutely. The minute we start classing teams as 'lesser' then watch us fall flat on our faces!

Firstly, because we have almost a full squad to choose from unlike last year. That includes a first choice halfback pairing. As a result we should be far less dependent on his creativity, which IMO attributed to a lot of his errors last year.

Secondly, it's a team who have managed only 4 tries in their opening 2 games, 3 of those against Salford. Our defence should be enough to cope with them with him playing his part. Their 3/4 quality is less than most SL sides IMO, and with a full pre-season with most players fit his understanding of his team-mates should also be better.

As long as all people want from him for now is for him to come in and look good enough rather than rip teams apart on his own, there should be less pressure.

So when in your opinion wil he be expected to get a game then?

When G Horne slips up to allow him in.

This is where I disagree, personally.

That would mean that all Horne has to do is remain average all year and he's guaranteed a place. Sends out the wrong message IMO - 'so long as you don't stink, that's ok'.

Surely the answer to this is when Agar thinks a particular game plan will suit Hall more then Horne?

Congratulations - you have found the Middle Way in RL coaching. Prepare to spend the foreseeable future making up the numbers in the middle of the table.

So if G Horne slips up v Celtic, you would expect C Hall to play v Catalan. For me, C Hall should show himself v Celtic to give Agar the option of Hall/Horne v Catalan.

But that's only opinions on options, if C hall were to excell v Celtic and Catalan as he did last season and kept his place, would you think it unfair on G Horne to miss out as he hasn't done much wrong.
Like most people agree you have got to look at what you have got, as I would expect Maloney to get a run out this weekend in place of King.

Which is why some have suggested Hall should play against Celtic because of his pace. Apparently though, G Horne needs to put in a nightmare performance before Hall can be allowed to play.

I think G Horne has played well enough to keep the shirt. I fancy that Hall will play more of a role once the side has settled and our halves have gelled a bit more.

Either way it is a tough call dropping a player who has done very well so far mainly because I think Horne has been told to claim the right centre shirt and is not simply cover.

And what has C Hall been told, 'your'e a spare pr-ck at a wedding' ?
To claim something, it has to be contested, otherwise it's been given and I don't think thats the case.

I think Agar should establish and play his best seventeen. When they get to playing well and with confidence, then you can start to introduce other players into the seventeen.

It will have been contested



Why do you think Horne got the shirt against Leeds? By lottery.



Pre season Horne obviously impressed Agar enough to give him first chance.

This does not mean it is his for good however...

Yeaman must be fantastic during pre season!

Why should it be G.Horne that's dropped for Hall?
Is Yeaman indespensable?

Who says slipping up is playing poorly. If there is competition slipping up could be putting an average performance in. G Horne is playing well, slipping up may mean putting in an average performance.




See my reply above. Ive never said i would be happy with mediocrity. You too have presumed that slipping up means playing poorly.

So no matter what happens Craig Hall must be in the team or we will be rubbish?

Competition for places is what we need this year.
Last year we struggled to get a fit 17.

that was'nt what i meant Dave.
I was getting at the fact that people are debating between G Horne and Hall when we have another centre who should be looking over his shoulder.

At the minute i guess where im coming from is that neither of them need to be looking over their shoulder. If anything the main time that they do is when Raynor comes back and Briscoe plays that well he makes himself un-droppable.