Certainly bulked up. Maybe he knows he won't get hardly any games at HB unless loads of injuries occur. Hooker or lock are his two best positions.

Still think him and Houghton could be our hookers for years to come in TL develops his game to that position. They could be the Cunningham and Roby type of rotational hookers.

Houghton might one day be fit to be mentioned in the same breath as those two, although it's by no means certain. Tommy Lee will never be anywhere near. He'll always be a squad player at best for Hull and, as I've said before, I can see him ending up at somewhere like Salford or Widnes in the longer term.

Its difficult to write him off as a 9 when he has rarely played it and developed that aspect of his game over a sustained period of time. He has the defensive quality, good distribution and good carries. He needs to work on his decision making for a 9 but has all the basic attributes imo.

His defence is pretty good, but I'd question whether his distribution and carries fall into that category. Average would be a more accurate assessment, in my opinion.

His decision making has been bordering on negligent whenever I've seen him in a role where he has to do more than just tackle and cart the ball up.

Houghton looks like he has what it takes to play at a consistently high level in years to come. I personally think Lee is destined to find his level at the upper end of the National Leagues or the lower end of Super League.

Guess we'll see, also depends if he is happy waiting another 3 years for Berro to go to get his chance or whether he wants to be off before then. When all is fit as ive said before he isnt near our first choice 17 currently though.

I would go along with that to an extent, he certainly controls the ptb better than Houghton but Houghton adds the impact (well he did last season). Biggest problem TL has is his decision making.

Agree, hoping he is working with Berro and Lasty on his decision making. Decision making as a 9 is something that you learn from experience more than anything. Lee hasnt play 9 as a junior and could probably do with a season in the 21s playing it to learn the game from there.

As they played together at Rep level he used to get compared a lot with Scott Moore at Saints at they were vying for the SH spot. Imo Moore is starting to show some good signs at hooker for Hudds and has developed physically similar to TL so maybe TL could follow suit?

Agree.

Can't see it myself. His decision making would have to improve beyond all recognition if he's going to make the grade. It [icould[/i happen, I just don't think it will.

His decison v Cas to set up one of the G Horne tries was fantastic. He can do it, just needs to do it consistently and get a run in one position.

On a slightly different angle I have been impressed with Scott Moore playing hooker for the Giants. Didnt he and TL play halves for England academy?

I'm not saying he always makes the wrong decision - just a high percentage of the time. He is capable of some useful touches, but they're too few and far between to be a top level player.

I also think he's had a fair bit of first team game time too, although I accept that much of this hasn't been at hooker. His development is, in my view, a fair way behind other players of a similar age, which is why I don't think he'll ever be regarded as a first choice hooker (or anything else) at a mid/upper table SL club.

Only 20 isnt he?

He maybe is, but if you compare him to a 20 year old Richard Horne, or a 20 year old James Roby, or even a 20 year old Richard Whiting, I don't think he comes close. Tom Briscoe is only 18 - how good will he be in 2 years' time?

Great minds and all that eh Paul?

And Tommy hasnt kicked on as a 7. But has ability.

Wonder where i'd be now if my career was written off at 20!

You know full well I haven't written him off. The level I am suggesting he will reach is higher than most RL players could ever dream of. I've certainly never played any sport to such a standard, so he has my respect for what he's achieved and is likely to achieve in the future.

I just think that top level players have a certain something about them - even at Tommy Lee's age - where you can see they're going to make the grade at the very highest standard. He doesn't have that, and I don't see it suddenly appearing now.

I don't think we're destined to agree on this point, so why don't you just accept that I'm right and we can move on!

Nowadays Tommy Lee is someone who won't cost you anything in a game but will add nothing of note either. He is the definition of 'he's orite to have in the squad.' I fully expect his place to be taken up by either Whiting or Washbrook when they get fit, and only to come back into the 17 when injuries hit again.

I think that's a bit harsh Lewis, Lee hasn't done a lot wrong this season so far.

I did kind of hint at that when I said about him not costing you though. It's just he won't add anything either. I can't remember him doing much wrong this season but can't remember him doing anything of note either tbh

Thats why Washy or Whiting should be above him as they offer a damn site more in attack than Lee does and defences marginally better.....Our subs at the moment make no impact as they are all "similar"...1 of those 2 will make a difference.