This is how I see it, although I'm no expert on the detail of the contract.

The SMC's role is to act as custodian of the council's community asset for the benefit of the tenant[us[/u and the public of Hull. Whilst some people have slated the council for the asset not turning a profit, that's a bit stupid IMO. The SMC's role is to optimise usage of the facility and maintain it to a good standard, not to earn money from it. Other assets like museums and galleries aren't famous for massive dividends, they're for the benefit of the community

Obviously appointing one of the tenants also as controller of the SMC creates a monumental conflict of interest. From what I can gather (i could be wrong, but there appears to be little evidence of this) there appears to be no council governance of the arrangement to ensure other tenants are treated equitably by the Allams in their dual role. There have been instances cited in the past of new charges being introduced to FC for display of club signage. Presumably these variations of contract are permissible within its original terms. The Allams could say both tenants pay these charges by raising an invoice from the SMC to City but at the end of the day as owners of both they're no worse off but we are. You get my drift. It sucks, but the Allams hold all the shares and therefore cards if we've not got protection under the SMC deal for variation of contract and the council are unwilling to offer us any intervention.

So, if City want to relocate, how would that work? The SMC still has an obligation to maintain the asset to an appropriate standard. Without City at the stadium, that leaves us to pay the SMC for the upkeep. If our contract is relatively fixed at £600k per annum, the question is who pays the balance of costs, assuming that it's more than this to run ground maintenance, ticketing, facilities, offices etc? The Allams in their lovely vast new home won't want to subsidise us, so they'd probably seek to either increase our rental payments or scrimp on maintenance costs etc. The question theN would be whether the council has the appetite or ability to defend our position. I doubt it.

It's a big statement by the Allams that there's no future for City at the KC. Had the extension plans gone ahead on the stadium as they wanted, with a free asset to mortgage against and provision of a huge supermarket and boutiques for culturally and intellectually impoverished folk like me (i.e. women) to distract ourselves with, I could at least see that there could be a hard commercial justification for it, albeit dressed up in "sporting gift plans" garb to distract even more vacuous folk than women. I'm talking about local journalists BTW. But to build a 35,000 facility costing probably north of £80m with no stadium to leverage borrowing against and no certainty of achieving uplifts in gates, arguably putting them at risk by re-locating, and insecure Premiership tenure, seems a bit unlikely. Could it be silly posturing? You decide.

In all probability, I'd guess the plan is to continue to push the terms of arrangement until we reach the point that Hull Wasps recently did at the Bonus Arena and had to relocate to Ennerdale. I'm going to see in the SMC accounts whether the SMC controls the Bonus Arena. The Wasps chairman said their proposed charges to remain there were going to double year on year without negotiation, hence forcing them out, but I'm pretty sure any sincere sporting philanthropist wouldn't create that situation so there must be a different controller of this venue.

Gosh, a long winded post telling us that you don't really know anything.

Why the surprise? You not read my other 18k posts?



Interesting alternative opinion by a poster on a City forum. Reckons City doing their own thing at Melton or wherever and forfeiting the lease opens the door for AP to renegotiate the terms and leverage his good relationships with the council to do a joint venture with them to redevelop the area.

Sorry if this hasn't already been mentioned, but surely it would just make more sense for Allam to put in an offer for money to buy the stadium off the council than risk going to a completely new and unestablished area?

What a great idea. The only stumbling block is that neither have the money.

End of the day the allams are business people . My take on it is they are prepared to buy kc but for a knock down price . By saying they want it for free talks break down , city threaten to leave kc and move on , the council then realise they have a stadium on there hands only getting used 13 days a year . The council then realise its in there best interest to sell it say for 15/20 million instead of having it on there hands and having repair costs mounting and having it unused most the time . Allams make out they've been hard done by , but as a present to the city are prepared to pay more money out to make everyone happy , then get the stadium and land for a knock down price .

I've said all along that allam will get his hands on the KC at some point and then we'll be fooked. I presume that appointing a chief exec who knows ferk all about the game is more about the stadium than football

This post is one of the reasons why La Barista is your finest poster.

Hear Hear

if hullfc,pay £600,000 rent,how much do the tigers pay?

Complete stab in the dark but they play nearly twice as many home games as FC so about double? Although because there gates are higher the SMC will get more food and drink revenue so slightly less?
Again complete guess work

Agree with that and that Basher guy, top post and a very good appraisal of where we are! Bet its a bit muddy at Welton this morning!

thanks mot.i was just wandering,seeing as the allams never mention it.

It does not matter how much the KC cost to build.

It is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
And there are only 2 tenants who would realistically want it.

So how do you value something like the KC.?

Well if the team that moves out needs to build another stadium, there's a value right there.

1 of only 2 possible tenants moving out would further decrease the value would it not.

Quote sky blue john Your an idiot Grendel and have no idea what your talking about !!!! I have just looked up on line what hull fc pay. They pay 100k ground rent. They also pay half of gate receipts over 7500. Also they have to pay half of corporate lounges and bars. '" www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/2 ... post317340 Quote Grendel Where did you get the information. Seems contradicted by this; COUNCIL which spent £46m on building a prestigious sports stadium received a zero return in lease payments last year despite huge spending on players’ wages by the football club using the ground. The 50-year lease Hull Council agreed with a private company to run the KC Stadium has previously been revealed to have delivered little in return to the taxpayer – but in the last completed financial year it delivered nothing at all. The council acknowledged it was “disappointed” with the latest figures. Opening the site to wider development would give the council the opportunity to increase returns but the authority’s Labour leader, Steve Brady, said a fresh approach to local businessman Assem Allam, who owns both Hull City and the company that runs the stadium, over redevelopment had been rebuffed. Last year, Mr Allam announced multi-million pound plans to redevelop the area around the stadium through the creation of a sports village, including a range of new sporting facilities. He insisted then that ownership of the stadium was a prerequisite and Coun Brady said the businessman’s position remained the same. The council leader said regeneration of the area remained a priority but the authority preferred a joint venture and retaining ownership of the stadium. He also said any change in ownership would have to go to a local referendum. Coun Brady said: “We own the land and we still want to be involved in regeneration of the site to protect our interests.” But Mr Allam said the relationship with the council was broken and said he remained angry with comments attributed to him by the council last year when talks over redevelopment of the site came to an abrupt halt. He added: “I said at the time the matter was closed and that remains the case.” Minimal returns on the huge public outlay have been compounded by the council agreeing to rent offices at the stadium for £72,500 a year – meaning taxpayers are effectively subsidising the home of Hull City football club and Hull FC rugby league club. At the same time, players’ wages at Hull City have run into tens of thousands of pounds per week. In total, the council has received just £47,846 in lease payments since the stadium opened in 2002 but paid close to £600,000 to rent office space in its own stadium. The council said it now plans to exercise a break clause in the rental agreement and expects to vacate the offices later this year. Hull Council leases the stadium to the Superstadium Management Company (SMC), owned by Mr Allam. Under the deal, payment to the council is based on a small percentage of any annual profits made by the SMC. The company’s income includes rent from both Hull City and Hull FC but profits have declined since the stadium opened in 2002. And in the SMC’s last accounting year, which ended in July 2011, the company made no profit at all, which left Hull Council with no return from the lease. The council is bound by the terms of the 50-year lease, which was found to be legally watertight when it looked at the possibility of extricating itself two years ago. A council spokeswoman said: “The contract between the council and the SMC was drawn up in a different financial climate and Hull’s sporting profile was much lower. Though disappointing there has not been anything in terms of profit share for the latest financial period, in the current economic climate it was unlikely to see an improvement. “However, in reaching its objectives and raising the city’s profile the stadium continues to provide benefits to the city in terms economic regeneration.” That is just unacceptable '" www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/2 ... Rent/page5 Quote It's sounds as if Hull City Council is being well and truely screwed by the football club,'" www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/2 ... Rent/page6

Quote sky blue john Your an idiot Grendel and have no idea what your talking about !!!! I have just looked up on line what hull fc pay. They pay 100k ground rent. They also pay half of gate receipts over 7500. Also they have to pay half of corporate lounges and bars. '" www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/2 ... post317340 Quote Grendel Where did you get the information. Seems contradicted by this; COUNCIL which spent £46m on building a prestigious sports stadium received a zero return in lease payments last year despite huge spending on players’ wages by the football club using the ground. The 50-year lease Hull Council agreed with a private company to run the KC Stadium has previously been revealed to have delivered little in return to the taxpayer – but in the last completed financial year it delivered nothing at all. The council acknowledged it was “disappointed” with the latest figures. Opening the site to wider development would give the council the opportunity to increase returns but the authority’s Labour leader, Steve Brady, said a fresh approach to local businessman Assem Allam, who owns both Hull City and the company that runs the stadium, over redevelopment had been rebuffed. Last year, Mr Allam announced multi-million pound plans to redevelop the area around the stadium through the creation of a sports village, including a range of new sporting facilities. He insisted then that ownership of the stadium was a prerequisite and Coun Brady said the businessman’s position remained the same. The council leader said regeneration of the area remained a priority but the authority preferred a joint venture and retaining ownership of the stadium. He also said any change in ownership would have to go to a local referendum. Coun Brady said: “We own the land and we still want to be involved in regeneration of the site to protect our interests.” But Mr Allam said the relationship with the council was broken and said he remained angry with comments attributed to him by the council last year when talks over redevelopment of the site came to an abrupt halt. He added: “I said at the time the matter was closed and that remains the case.” Minimal returns on the huge public outlay have been compounded by the council agreeing to rent offices at the stadium for £72,500 a year – meaning taxpayers are effectively subsidising the home of Hull City football club and Hull FC rugby league club. At the same time, players’ wages at Hull City have run into tens of thousands of pounds per week. In total, the council has received just £47,846 in lease payments since the stadium opened in 2002 but paid close to £600,000 to rent office space in its own stadium. The council said it now plans to exercise a break clause in the rental agreement and expects to vacate the offices later this year. Hull Council leases the stadium to the Superstadium Management Company (SMC), owned by Mr Allam. Under the deal, payment to the council is based on a small percentage of any annual profits made by the SMC. The company’s income includes rent from both Hull City and Hull FC but profits have declined since the stadium opened in 2002. And in the SMC’s last accounting year, which ended in July 2011, the company made no profit at all, which left Hull Council with no return from the lease. The council is bound by the terms of the 50-year lease, which was found to be legally watertight when it looked at the possibility of extricating itself two years ago. A council spokeswoman said: “The contract between the council and the SMC was drawn up in a different financial climate and Hull’s sporting profile was much lower. Though disappointing there has not been anything in terms of profit share for the latest financial period, in the current economic climate it was unlikely to see an improvement. “However, in reaching its objectives and raising the city’s profile the stadium continues to provide benefits to the city in terms economic regeneration.” That is just unacceptable '" www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/2 ... Rent/page5 Quote It's sounds as if Hull City Council is being well and truely screwed by the football club,'" www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/2 ... Rent/page6

How much would it cost to build a new Stadium plus you need land for parking The KC Stadium was build for 43m it has parking land if you were to sell the lot.To buy it,you would need hell of a lot of cash .The land that it take up has a big value,The fair ground alone would knock a hole in your pocket

Read in the hdm the kc Only Cost £27million to build the other £16million was sent on the outside of the stadium

The others being my shoes, and huge rack of scones. That will get deleted for sure.

It's not really answering the question is it?

As a building the KC is limited to only 2-3 companies that would ever want to buy it.

Other companies might be interested if it was cheap enough for them to return
an annual profit of above 7% from the tenants of the ground.

After that, you are looking at land value if someone wanted to knock it down
to build something on the site. You can build about 16 houses per acre.

I work for a company that pays more than £1,000,000 for bespoke machinery.
There is very little chance we could sell the machines on at a later date for
anything other than scrap value of the metal.

Which is all true, however you miss the real point, which is that he doesn't just want the stadium itself for peanuts, he wants the whole site and to then be allowed to develop it for mixed use including retail. I don't know how many acres the site is but it's pretty close to the city centre and bang in the middle of a densely populated residential area.

In my opinion, the area is unsuitable for anything which would regularly bring in large numbers of people. The roads just can't cope with the volumes of cars on a match day and any use which brought significant numbers every day would cause chaos

No one wants to buy the KC on its own. If they did, it could be the value of the future expected cash flows over the contract life (rental income less maintenance costs) at an appropriate yield rate. If the SMC accounts are to be believed this would be nothing.

The "proposal" was for a development covering West Park and the fairground. If the Council granted A1 Food Retail consent, Morrisons for example would pay over a million an acre for that sort of usage. The point is that the council could have taken that route years ago, but wanted their stadium in a park, next to the fairground, for use by both the city's 2 main clubs.

So how much do people think the whole developmet site is worth.

I am not for or against it. Just interested in how much people
think would be a fair amount for the sale of the KC and surrounding
land including walton street car park.

How many acres is it?