Long was the Hull Daily Mail Man of the Match



TBF it was a tough choice. No sign of the 1-2-3 thread this week.

He may have been fat but a half fit Cunningham was ten times a fit Washbrook...

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Don't give a sh[size=100i[/sizet who plays where as long as it's the best option for the team, which Berrigan at hooker is.



Yes, he has. The real problem is that most people don't have a clue what it was he offered to his previous teams and are expecting something different. What it is they're expecting, I don't know. My fairly straightforward questions in the other thread remain unanswered, but it appears that people were expecting him to 'have an impact' (whatever that means). Presumably, that means improve on what we had before and what we had before was Richard Swain. To expect an improvement on him is ridiculous.



Yes, it is. Signing a player who isn't a leader and expecting him to be a leader is utterly stupid. I'm not saying the club expected him to be a leader (I'd hope their scouting is good enough that they'd know what they were getting), but a lot of fans did. I've no idea why, but the error is purely theirs.



We signed him to attempt to fill the hole left by one of the best hookers to have played the game. He's done a pretty good job so far, better than the vast, vast majority of other options would have done.



He really doesn't. He got POTY in his first season, despite being messed about playing in virtually every spot we could find. He was treated not too differently last year, and again was comfortably one of our best players. This year, we've seen a huge change in the way the PTB is policed and the only hooker to be having any success out of dummy half really is Lunt, and that comes off the back of the good work Huddersfield put in on the ground. When Berrigan does get chance to jump out, he consistently looks dangerous (even on Saturday, he was our biggest threat on the two occasions we actually found a quick play) and his service from dummy half, whilst not exemplary like Swain's, is very good generally. Defensively, he's very strong and we usually suffer massively in that area when he goes off.

You're right he is the best option there for us, but he's been distinctly average for us there and is one of the main factors for us when playing good or bad. We've been woeful for over 2 years and i'm not accepting that it's all down to a poor pack and not having a 7. Berro must take some accountability too for giving us very little in attack.

He is certainly no Roby etc thats for sure!!

In what way has he been average? What hasn't he done that you want him to do? What hasn't he done that the unanimously lauded Richard Swain did? Specifically I mean, not vague, vacuous stuff like 'he's not had enough impact' or 'lead'.

Purely on Saturday my criticism was that he never really dominated around the ruck. He did not run the ball much and the frustrating thing is when he did he looked good and at times his distribution was poor.

He looked much more of a threat when he moved into the halves with ball in hand.

On Saturday he looked anything but an International/SOO player. Although overall for the season I feel he has been playing well. His two poorest performances were Crusaders and Salford.

Do we have to get into this debate again?



(ive never compared Berro to Swain and aren't going to start now)

Ok, just as i'm bored here what i dont think Berro does enough of:
- speed of ptb distribution is slow, he picks up and looks rather than firing passes
- taking the line on. He does this probably once or twice per game. I want to see him do this more as he has a real gift to break the line and also pick the right pass.
- play a larger role in what's good attacking wise at Hull FC. We've blamed having no scrum half for a number of years now and i'd like to see us play off the 9 a bit more than rely on the 7. Berro needs to do this.
- statistically he is on a par with Ryan Hudson. I know stats are what you make of them but this in itself is a statement that says he must do better. He's a former Oz international on big bucks and should be performing like a senior member of the squad.

I know I'm repeating myself, but this is purely down to the quality of PTB. If it's good enough, he goes. Just about every time. It's something he's very good at and is something he's done well throughout his career at hooker and it's been no different here, except that the quality he's had to work off has, unsurprisingly, been much poorer than at Brisbane, for Queensland or for Australia.



When you say 'at times' I assume you're talking about the two poor passes he gave. That's just something that happens with nearly all hookers. When you're making 200+ passes a game, some will occasionally go wrong.



Because he got the ball with a bit of space and room to run into. I don't think he really did play any better at 6, but he looked more of a threat because he had more of a chance to run with the ball.

All fair points. I think because he is such a good player that when we are playing badly you want one of your star players to produce something special and Berrigan comes in that bracket.

We don't have to, but I am genuinely interested as to why people have such a low opinion of Berrigan's performances here because I just don't see it.



I think everyone who's followed the club over the last few years has and does, consciously or otherwise. It's only natural to compare a player with his direct predecessor.

The reason I keep bringing Swain into it is because he was praised by all, almost every week. He's (rightly) regarded as one of our best players, certainly in the modern era, and yet I don't think he was massively better for us than Berrigan has been. And I'd like to know what differences it is that people see between the two.



Not all the time. Usually only when he's trying to draw in the markers and pop a short ball to an oncoming runner. When he needs to get quick service to the halves, he does.



As I mentioned in my previous post, this is entirely dependant on the play he has to work off. He's not like Houghton in that he's not got the same acceleration off the mark, so he picks his time to go much more carefully. Houghton goes far too often, and rarely looks for anything other than just getting his head down and running straight back behind the ruck. Berrigan looks to go when the line is genuinely not set and there is a real chance of a break.



I'm not sure how you want him to do this. Again, without a quick play and a chance to scoot, there's not a lot he can do apart from move the ball out to runners or the halves.

I can see that, but I think hooker's just about the hardest position to produce something special from individually. More than any other position, it relies on good work from other players/poor work from the opposition.

Very true but how many times does Cunningham come on and completely change and dominate a game. He seems to get Saints moving.

the trouble with berrigan is he came on richard swain's wages with richard swain's reputation and as everyone knows he is nowhere near richard swain, still a good player mind and if he'd come on a lot less money and with a lot less hype everybody would be highly satisfied with him, whether he deserves to be one of the very top earners at the club is questionable for me.

That has been over a period of time during which Saints have been particularly good at finding a quick play though. That's not happened quite as often over the last couple of years and Cunningham's effectiveness has decreased. Although that will also be partly down to him getting on in years.

Sure I remember Roby being even quicker from acting half??

Your point being?

Roby has got to be one of the most over-rated players ever. How he won MOS is beyond me. I'd rather have Berrigan than Roby tbh and thats saying something!

a player wins man of steel, raved about by the aussies last year, courted by the Roosters so on and so forth OVER RATED???
you dont win MOS by being over rated matey

When did the ozzies rave about him and when did the roosters want him?

both straight after the world cup mate!!!

and in any case a man who won MOS isnt over rated !!he wins MOS because he IS rated!

I must have missed that mate, can't remember him been mentioned.

Roosters are after graham though.

and so is a man who's won the Clive churchill medal, state of origin, test caps and was named in Brisbane broncos finest 20 players of all time.