How exactly am I hiding behind my Mods badge? I posted a perfectly reasonable and polite question.



The point I was making is that there is zero evidence that buying Westerman prevented us from buying a half-back. Since you felt so strongly otherwise I wondered if you knew of an instance where it had. That's all.

So if neither of us knows of a half-back signing that we missed out on because of the money spent on Westerman, what makes you think that paying for him stopped us from paying for a half-back? We're not short of cash for a fee and we had some cap space. In fact we were in for Chase at one point.

It was my oponion that the money could have gone towards a half-back instead of a player we dont really need.

Cas can keep Chase for me....find him vastly over-rated.

That's not really answering my question though. There's no evidence to suggest that we didn't have enough money for Westerman AND a half-back, so spending the cash on Westerman had zero effect on us signing a half-back. The only impact he has is the space being taken up on the cap.

I agree with your point that signing a 13/SR wasn't exactly a priority given the balance of the squad, although it does fit in with our apparent attempt to sign any promising young player we can.

Ok, Whiting doesn't have the strength or stamina, regardless of size. No coach has ever had him in their plans for the pack, there's a reason for that.
But obviously you and a few others know better than super league coaches.

And super league coaches know everything do they....even they get things wrong.

And you know better than a super league coach as to why Whiting isnt in the pack.You can add strength and stamina you know...just think with his reading of the game,he WOULD make a very good 13 if given the chance.

Whiting is completely unproven at 13 and imo could not cope physically with the demands of playing the pack every week. Westerman is a classy player and should get better with age and more gametime. English players are the way forward and having someone like Westerman signed up for 4 years is only a positive thing. As for halves I take your point but there is no one out there of Westerman's quality (albeit in a different position) so it's not like we missed out on anyone.

But why would we even entertain the idea as long as we've got Westerman? Who's a proven SL 13.
I don't think Whiting could play in the pack. Yeamans the same size as Wilkin and JJB, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near our pack. You start adding beef to Whiting you'll slow him to a stop.

We wouldn't now. But his entire point was that if we had entertained the idea, we may not have bothered spending the money we did on Westerman, so your comment here is irrelevant.

But Whiting doesn't have the size, strength or stamina to play through the middle. Which was my point in the first place, and none of the coaches Rich has had has ever entertained the idea.

Why on earth would you question his strength or stamina? I've never seen either be an issue with him. And you're wrong about the coaches, McRae was considering him as lock but he was hardly going to oust Jason Smith was he?

In 2004 vs Salford when J.Smith got injured, Whiting started at loose man and played had a great game, and a few times that season he came off the bench and replaced Smith at lock. In 2005 he started 5 games at loose forward. In 2006 he started 3 games at lock but played there off the bench a many times. In 2008 he only played 2 games, and one was at lock and one was off the bench to lock.

Basically, every single point you raise about him is factually inaccurate, and unjustified opinion.

Didn't Peter Sharpe give Whiting an off season training programme to bulk-up as he felt RW was suited to the back-row and Loose Forward? I could well be wrong but I'm sure I recall the off season before his serious injury he had been groomed for the pack. I don't see him there myself, mind.

So you think the strength and stamina needed in the pack is the same that's needed in the backs?
So, according to your stats, which I don't believe (but i'm willing to change that on proof) he's played loose forward 10 times in 7 years and the odd time off the bench? Well, I'm certainly convinced now.

It's been talked about many times, it's never happened. Most people would conclude that there's a reason why!

Doesn't make your comment any more relevant. The thing is, you can debate it as much as you like but there's no way either of you can definitively claim to be right without him playing there. You might not think he has the size, strength and stamina required, but that doesn't make it fact in the way you have stated it. It's entirely possible he could tackle above his weight and cope with the extra work with the additional teammates in the tackles that tend to go with playing in the middle.

I didn't say that at all, although there is absolutely no reason to place doubt on his ability to do so, like all the other backs in Super League that also play in the forwards.

It's great how you've tried to manipulate those statistics, that you don't even believe, to fit your tedious baseless opinion. The fact that the majority of times he featured for Hull was off the bench doesn't fit your argument too well does it?

I couldn't give a toss if you believe those 100% accurate statistics, the fact you don't believe them gives me a warm feeling of superiority. The fact that your basing your argument on ignorance is a refreshing change. You'll find many knowledgeable Hull fans that can remember seeing Whiting perform admirably at loose forward, and I'm delighted that you're not one of them.

A combination of reasons; his seeming inability to put on enough weight, his own personal injuries putting paid to him for a while, or other injuries in the squad meaning he's been needed more elsewhere.

There have been a couple of pre-seasons where he had a couple of goes at loose forward. Most people would conclude that there are reasons why.

Well, given how many years he's played professional league, he's never been realistically considered. You have to ask why?
I don't see him as a 13, I see him as one of the best utility backs in SL and we miss him when he's not in the 17.
As for Westerman, he's a proven SL 13, young and British. Securing his services for 4 years was very good business. Hopefully he'll take the 13 spot when Fitz leaves.

You asked why I would question his strength and stamina. That's because he's a back and has an inability to [ibulk up[/i.


I haven't manipulated anything, you put the figures there for everyone to see! He's started 10 games (according to you) in 7 years at loose forward. Your words, not mine.


You can't prove your stats, then claim you don't need to because knowledgeable fans can remember! Absolute quality.

Yeah, why it was only pre season.

Quote ="east hull FC fan"You asked why I would question his strength and stamina. That's because he's a back and has an inability to [ibulk up[/i. I haven't manipulated anything, you put the figures there for everyone to see! He's started 10 games (according to you) in 7 years at loose forward. Your words, not mine. You can't prove your stats, then claim you don't need to because knowledgeable fans can remember! Absolute quality. '" How quaint, yet another mis-quote! I can prove my stats, the fact that I remember him playing there has nothing to do with them. Here is a link where you can find such proof. Although I imagine you'll still struggle to accept them. www.rugbyleagueproject.org/playe ... mmary.html

Quote ="east hull FC fan"You asked why I would question his strength and stamina. That's because he's a back and has an inability to [ibulk up[/i. I haven't manipulated anything, you put the figures there for everyone to see! He's started 10 games (according to you) in 7 years at loose forward. Your words, not mine. You can't prove your stats, then claim you don't need to because knowledgeable fans can remember! Absolute quality. '" How quaint, yet another mis-quote! I can prove my stats, the fact that I remember him playing there has nothing to do with them. Here is a link where you can find such proof. Although I imagine you'll still struggle to accept them. www.rugbyleagueproject.org/playe ... mmary.html

But that's not true. As I said, at least a couple of pre-seasons had him lining up at 13 to try him out there. IIRC, 2005 under Kear, which ended in him doing his shoulder in and missing the start of the season, and once under Sharp either 2007 or 2008 (possibly both), and I think that's when he broke his leg. I'm sure others will remember.



I actually tend to agree. I have thought that with an extra stone he could do a very good job in the 2nd row though. I've made the comparison to Chris Chester in the past. I've only disagreed with the obnoxious way (to appearances at least) in which you've been phrasing your opinions as if they are facts and dismissing the actual statistical facts of others by saying you don't believe them.

[url=http://www.slstats.org/p485/Richard+Whiting.htmlHere you are.[/url

Quote ="Raggytash"How quaint, yet another mis-quote! I can prove my stats, the fact that I remember him playing there has nothing to do with them. Here is a link where you can find such proof. Although I imagine you'll still struggle to accept them. www.rugbyleagueproject.org/playe ... mmary.html'" So, 10 games there in 7 years. Only shows that the people that counted held my opinion of him in the pack.The majority of fans on here don't believe he's a 13. Maybe none of us are as knowledgeable as you?

Quote ="Raggytash"How quaint, yet another mis-quote! I can prove my stats, the fact that I remember him playing there has nothing to do with them. Here is a link where you can find such proof. Although I imagine you'll still struggle to accept them. www.rugbyleagueproject.org/playe ... mmary.html'" So, 10 games there in 7 years. Only shows that the people that counted held my opinion of him in the pack.The majority of fans on here don't believe he's a 13. Maybe none of us are as knowledgeable as you?

He's played a few games at LF in different pre-seasons, why would coaches do that if they had no interest in how he would perform there? It obviously doesn't look like they've been sufficiently impressed to move him there permanently, but your claim that none of his coaches have realistically considered him there is not true. They've picked him there, that's pretty realistic consideration, no matter what the circumstances.

If he was realistically considered he'd have played there a lot more.