Your attempt to look at the evidence is an abomination. A fun abomination, but still.

Also for any budding statisticians (or pedantic ****s), where Mrs B has written that the ‘the data here is the reality’, she means the ‘the data here are the reality’.

I agree though that Hull have a better recent track record, and that we need to look at why we struggled even compared with you (never mind Saints or Wigan) and at what should be done differently from now on. One thing though, there’s either not as much local talent nowadays as people like to think, or both clubs were doing a pretty mediocre job earlier in the decade (Rovers more so, admittedly). When you’re illustrating points about youth development with players who have retired, it’s not a great sign.

A homegrown core has value, I fully accept. However, it is overstated by people associated with successful clubs because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy, whereas believing that the success they enjoyed relied more heavily on simply having more money than the opposition would perhaps be too bleak for them.

In contrast we had five make their debuts, the most for us in the period I looked at, and got relegated.

Now, it could be coincidence - but it’s interesting imo.

Quote ="Mild Rover"Your attempt to look at the evidence is an abomination. A fun abomination, but still. Also for any budding statisticians (or pedantic ****s), where Mrs B has written that the ‘the data here is the reality’, she means the ‘the data here are the reality’. I agree though that Hull have a better recent track record, and that we need to look at why we struggled even compared with you (never mind Saints or Wigan) and at [uwhat should be done differently from now on[/u. One thing though, there’s either not as much local talent nowadays as people like to think, or both clubs were doing a pretty mediocre job earlier in the decade (Rovers more so, admittedly). When you’re illustrating points about youth development with players who have retired, it’s not a great sign. A homegrown core has value, I fully accept. However, it is overstated by people associated with successful clubs because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy, whereas believing that the success they enjoyed relied more heavily on simply having more money than the opposition would perhaps be too bleak for them.'" Much better! Although https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... l-singular And a little homegrown jam tomorrow on top. How very Rovers

Quote ="Mild Rover"Your attempt to look at the evidence is an abomination. A fun abomination, but still. Also for any budding statisticians (or pedantic ****s), where Mrs B has written that the ‘the data here is the reality’, she means the ‘the data here are the reality’. I agree though that Hull have a better recent track record, and that we need to look at why we struggled even compared with you (never mind Saints or Wigan) and at [uwhat should be done differently from now on[/u. One thing though, there’s either not as much local talent nowadays as people like to think, or both clubs were doing a pretty mediocre job earlier in the decade (Rovers more so, admittedly). When you’re illustrating points about youth development with players who have retired, it’s not a great sign. A homegrown core has value, I fully accept. However, it is overstated by people associated with successful clubs because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy, whereas believing that the success they enjoyed relied more heavily on simply having more money than the opposition would perhaps be too bleak for them.'" Much better! Although https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... l-singular And a little homegrown jam tomorrow on top. How very Rovers

On a related topic, Hull beat Wakefield reserves 48-16 away. Cameron Scott hat trick.

Quote ="Mrs Barista"Much better! Although https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... l-singular And a little homegrown jam tomorrow on top. How very Rovers '" Tbf, i’m happy using ‘alternatives’, which some people object to, believing it should only ever be singlular because of its Latin root. Language evolves and is all about common usage. i’d also defend my dialectical heritage passionately. Could of been, borrow me, learnt me... there is a line. I’m not promising jam, but you’ve got to aspire to better. We [ireally[/i need to in this regard. As the Mighty Boosh learned us, the present is elements of the past and elements of the future combining to create something not quite as good as either. So i’ll glory in the triumphs of yesteryear and the potential for a brighter tomorrow, twisting reality to something more to my taste. Like you with your abominable pie chart. Are you on holiday now? Go and have a good time on the penny arcades or whatever, and stop wasting your precious time reading my rubbish!

Quote ="Mrs Barista"Much better! Although https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... l-singular And a little homegrown jam tomorrow on top. How very Rovers '" Tbf, i’m happy using ‘alternatives’, which some people object to, believing it should only ever be singlular because of its Latin root. Language evolves and is all about common usage. i’d also defend my dialectical heritage passionately. Could of been, borrow me, learnt me... there is a line. I’m not promising jam, but you’ve got to aspire to better. We [ireally[/i need to in this regard. As the Mighty Boosh learned us, the present is elements of the past and elements of the future combining to create something not quite as good as either. So i’ll glory in the triumphs of yesteryear and the potential for a brighter tomorrow, twisting reality to something more to my taste. Like you with your abominable pie chart. Are you on holiday now? Go and have a good time on the penny arcades or whatever, and stop wasting your precious time reading my rubbish!

I am nearly on holiday. Do you say day-ta, or dah-ta? I'm pretty sure the Romans used the latter if we're doing tradition

Worrying times ahead, Andy the Rovers fan says that Pearson will be looking to leave us, now he has to pay for the academy.

Along with the best players coaches facilities and the super rich chairman , it won't be long until Rovers are churning out international players again.

He can leave, but he can’t go, “coach quotes”

Bobby did play first team. So did a few others. I'm fairly sure I've also missed some so don't worry about it mate!



2012 Tom Lineham (6icon_cool.gif, Chris Green (12icon_cool.gif, Liam Kent (12)
2015 Bobby Tyson Wilson (2) Challenge cup v Sheffield Eagles, Super League v Salford.
2016 Jack Downs (20) (NOT 2015)

Same way I say tomato - correctly.





That sarcasm is a bit rich after some of the hyperbole that surrounded your most recent supposed golden generation. Some have emerged serviceable pros, and certainly they’re the best batch from either club for a while. But they were talked about as the basis of our international team for years to come in some quarters. okay, the lad Tomlinson was the worst offender but he’s been a contributor to the HDM... the sports section of which is a Hull FC fanzine, admittedly. However, he was hardly a lone voice in the wilderness.

Let’s be honest, either club would love a group like Wheeldon, Hall, Washbrook, G.Horne and Tommy Lee now - and they were thought by many to have not lived up to expectations.

Cheers. Wikipedia (not the most reliable source, I know), had Lineham, Green and Kent down as 2011 debuts. Or maybe it refers to the first year they got a squad number or something. I saw Kent play a couple of times (Wiki only credits him with seven games, iirc), and thought he looked promising. Lineham had played 20 times for York before joining, according to Wiki, and i’ve seen Rovers’ homegrown players’ credentials questioned for a lot less than that.
Bobby Tyson-Wilson doesn’t even have a Wiki page, as far as I can see.

Lots of player stats on this site.... eg Tom Lineham www.rugbyleagueproject.org/playe ... mmary.html

Lots of player stats on this site.... eg Tom Lineham www.rugbyleagueproject.org/playe ... mmary.html

Amended list for Hull. 2012: Bowden (132), Green (12icon_cool.gif, Lineham (6icon_cool.gif*, Crooks (51), Kent (12), Cunningham (10), Jack Briscoe (1) 2013: Shaul (150), Hadley (83) 2014: Abdull (54), Harry Tyson-Wilson (1) 2015: Fash (55), Matongo (49), Logan (3icon_cool.gif, Turgut (30), Lancaster (7), Bobby Tyson-Wilson (2) 2016: Downs (20). * www.hullfc.com/news/2012-02-29-l ... and-whites

Amended list for Hull. 2012: Bowden (132), Green (12icon_cool.gif, Lineham (6icon_cool.gif*, Crooks (51), Kent (12), Cunningham (10), Jack Briscoe (1) 2013: Shaul (150), Hadley (83) 2014: Abdull (54), Harry Tyson-Wilson (1) 2015: Fash (55), Matongo (49), Logan (3icon_cool.gif, Turgut (30), Lancaster (7), Bobby Tyson-Wilson (2) 2016: Downs (20). * www.hullfc.com/news/2012-02-29-l ... and-whites

Lineham played for York but did at least one full season in our academy. We used to go and watch him quite a lot. There's no credentials to question there. If I pointed out that Westerman or Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook counted because they played for our academy - that would be questionable. Although I'm quite sure they're only decent players because of that fact!

Didn't Watts play for either our or your academy too?

And as an aside, I thought Turgut was starting to look a real player just before Salford got rid. Which makes what's happened an even bigger tragedy.

Yeah, I think quibbling about the definition for defunct rule is a bit daft. I’m interested in the comparison because this has been one of several problems for us in putting together competitive squads. Whether Will Oakes having been with Wakefield until he was 16 means he isn’t one of our own is much less interesting to me than whether he can become a top-10 winger in SL over the next couple of years, for example.

For some it’s a competition in of itself though, and you do get different views on who counts, and they’re often partisan. Liam Watts played one game as 16-year old for Cas against amateur opposition and so was discounted as a Rovers product by some despite fully meeting the official criteria. Westerman’s time in Hull’s youth ranks was occasionally flagged by hull fans, but usually only Rovers fans mention Abdull was with us before switching to Hull.

In case anyone is wondering....



If you want to know the definition of Under 21's then look it up!

Ahhh, I had forgotten it was carried over or was adopted as part of the salary cap rules, having been dropped from the quota rules. Those rules are so opaque that I can’t really be bothered with them. Also the dispensations are not generally relevant to Rovers!

What I mean is that the details of how we bring players in don’t matter all that much to me, other than how well it works. If bringing in (cherry picking) players like Kristian Bell, Liam Watts, Will Oakes or Will Dagger works, i’m happy with it. Same goes for doing better more locally. And if it doesn’t work, why not? The RFL’s Byzantine system of incentives - it changes faster than clubs can adapt to it anyway. The suspicion being that is because it adapts to reward whatever situation certain clubs find themselves in - central contracts and all that.

Just a bit of fun mate, you know that, there is a post on the Rovers forum, that is comedy gold, the hatred of all things Hull is great, loads of post when we lose then nothing when we win, Connor needs to be sold, Hull getting all the decisions, Pearson leaving and saying we were full strength against Warrington and saying it should be an easy win in a mocking way (That backfired). I love reading some of the things on there, would love to post but I'd better banned straight away, as nothing can be challenged from a fan of another club.

Back on topic, agree with you, forwards we always seem to produce, but backs and particulary halfbacks just don't seem to kick on, I really thought one of Dean and HTW would make it.

Of course!





RBA makes a fair pointing about striving to match Wigan and Saints. However, I recall reading an announcement before the academy merger about the lads newly signed to the first year of Rovers’ scholarship. If memory my isn’t playing me false, the majority were from Skirlaugh or West Hull, with the odd one to two from Beverley or Myton etc. With Hull, i’d guess, also having signed players from Skirlaugh and WH, it did make me wonder how many those clubs had left in that age group, not on scholarship programmes. Also, do Saints and Wigan rely that heavily [ujust[/u on Blackbrook and St Pats and St Jude’s? Might have a look.

I think we're victims of our own success. In my opinion Abdul is a better halfback than Dec Patton or Richardson neither of which do I think would do half as good a job as Jordan has at London. In my experience, our best youth come through when the first team is awful. The likes of Horne and Cooke came through when we had no option but to play them. Enough game time and responsibility can transform a player but in recent years our first team has been too strong to allow that to happen. It's much less of a risk to blood a forward than it is a back, as an error from a forward usually has less consequences. Shaul, Hall, Lineham, Lynne, Crooks, and Briscoe are all high end performers in the top league and we produced them all. The emergence of Connor Wynn looks exciting if a bit tragic that he plays in a position we're already so strong in. Also I know he's a hooker, but I think there's very few other SL sides that would've give Litten so little game time.

A current 1 - 13 of current Super League players that have come through the Hull academy could compete with the equivalent of any other SL side in my opinion.

Looking at Saints current U-19s and Scholarships together, for players whose community club is listed (nearly all of them), those clubs are below with number of players in brackets.

Blackbrook (14)
Halton Hornets (7)
Thatto Heath (7)
Newton Storm (5)
Wigan St Jude’s (5)
Leigh East (3)
Orrell St James (3)
Chorley Panthers, Leigh Miners Rangers, Liverpool Lions, Walney Central (all 2)
Clock Face Miners, Folly Lane (both very cool names for clubs), Roose Pioneers, Shevington Sharks, Woolston Golds (all 1)

So although just three clubs provided nearly half of all the players listed, there are 16 clubs there, which i’d guess is more than Hull and Rovers draw on. Among the players who are in their first team squad and came through their system, you can add South Wales Scorpions, Bold Miners/Pilkington Recs, Barrow Island, Rochdale Mayfield and Oldham St Anne’s/Littleborough.

Yes but how many clubs are recruiting from those teams? Whereas ourselves and KR have almost exclusivity to our local amateur teams. The sad thing as a Saints fan is that for all their much lauded youth, it's almost impossible to find one of their players that is actually FROM St Helens itself in the first team.

I think what is perhaps interesting there is the proportion of those that make it who come from community clubs outside Hull and District. Briscoe from Fev Lions, Crooks from Cas Lock Lane, Lineham from teams in York. Watts and Oakes being examples of us trying similar, and you have Bienek from London and the Badham (sp?) twins from Wales. Obviously there are plenty of Hull lads are in there too, and bringing youngsters from elsewhere doesn’t always work - e.g. Kristian Bell for us. But as a proportion of the overall intake, these more hand-picked talents seem to offer a good return. I understand there’s a need to fill out the squads and it makes sense to do that locally. For all that Blackbrook produced Graham and Roby, I suspect part of the reason Saints have so many from there is convenience.

Looking at our debutants from 2012 to 2016, with the exception of Oakes, I think they were all local lads, which suggests we weren’t spreading the net all that wide. After Lineham and Crooks, it was has been similar story for Hull in terms of relying on local lads.

Looks that way, good news that for us, wouldn't want him anywhere near the club.

6 players from the Hull area have been selected for England under 16's. unfortunately 3 of them signed for Cas, what a disaster the COHA has been, lets hope it doesn't set us back too many years.