I thought our outside backs generally did OK tonight; as you say Tony made one error tonight but was solid for the rest and backed up well.

his try tells you everything you need to know about him, didn't see anyone else busting a gut to get on the shoulder.

[:sicw44u9quote="east hull FC fan"I've seen billy slater and karmichael hunt let the ball bounce

Not every week like Motu does.IMO Briscoe was a lot safer but Motu offers more in attack at the minute i would go with the afer option as making mistakes in your own 20 just adds unwanted pressure.

first time we've seen a Hull player back a player up and not just stand back watching in ages

Our best player by a mile again.

onwards and upwards as they say.

upto 7th, the grand final march is on






















is it f00k

yawn

Yet no mention at all on the MOM thread so far.

I see your point, but on the flip side our attack is so pi$$ poor it needs all the help it can get.

I think that says it all about what people pay attention to.

Will Agar ship Motu out to Widnes now as well.

As I would expect you to.

I won't comment on tonight's performance as I didn't see it, but as a general rule there seem to be very few unbiased assessments of Tony on both sides. My personal stance has always been that he is not all some build him up to be as a fullback. His best asset is undoubtedly returning the ball (although it's by no means the gargantuan ability it's painted as), but this is accompanied by a hesitancy that negates a hefty portion of it. As many of his fans have a blind spot for the yards he initially loses as his critic have for those he then makes.

Furthermore, the yards he makes are only such a big deal because we don't make enough throughout the team. So in effect, I think the main thing he brings to the team only stands out because of others' inadequacies. If we had more metre-makers much of his appeal would be redundant IMO (as our early-season performances despite his absence indeed suggested).

I also find the comment earlier about him changing a game a bit odd. The only game I can recall him single-handedly turning was Wakefield at home, and that was in the wrong direction.

He's a decent fullback overall IMO, no more, no less. If we want to get back to being a top 4 team we need better (as we do in several positions).

Not getting into the Briscoe/Tony debate, however we need a new fullback now and I hope Motu doesn't get a new contract. Has been a good player - was an excellent and very useful utility back and also a good international hooker - however he's past his best and hasn't turned many games around in recent times that I can remember. Backed up Horne up very well tonight I should add.

Motu fullback = gash. One of our many reasons we are rubbish.

Motu utility player = very good, one of the reasons we are not playing him as such we are rubbish

Theres only one shaun briscoe

my take on the whole Tony thing was that he wasn't that bad tonight, yes he and Raynor made a mix up...

still on the fence about keeping him though, he was one of my favourite players in 2006/2007...but we need salary cap to be free to rebuild this team, and with Cusack also now signed up we're running out of players to release to allow us to re-build.

Always has , Alway will be.

Agree with this.

I'd say he's better than decent, but not as good as some would say. One thing you do always get, though, is 100% effort and commitment. Right now that's a rare commodity in our team.

not to many of the idiots on here that don't know the first thing about RL

On kick returns, I'm not that bothered about the extra yards he makes (he does make more than most, and always looks likely to make a break at some point, but I'll leave that for now), but the speed of the play after the return has an enormous effect. One that really doesn't get appreciated (on here, I'd guess there are no more than 5 who would even see it). Taking an example from tonight, he hesitated for a kick that was bouncing near him midway through the second half. Most of the crowd start their inspirational jeers and sharp intakes of breath. So much so that, when Tony returns the ball 10m, bounces Paul off in the tackle, hits the ground on knees and elbows and gets a quick play to Broughton before the markers are properly set, they're still moaning. Broughton then gets 15 unchallenged metres and we make another 50 on the last three plays of the set (finished off with an inevitably kick). That whole set, 60+m is purely down to that first play. Now lets put Horne at fullback. He'd probably have picked it up earlier and might have made 12m on the return (unlikely, though, because it would undoubtedly be stuttering and laboured). He'd get to the line, be held up in the tackle, probably turned onto his back, and play the ball nice and slowly with the markers set. They'd be off as soon as the ball touched the floor and Broughton would do well to make 5m. We'd then have a team still retreating, so would need a couple of settling plays, keeping it tight around the middle, maybe for gains of 10m if we're lucky. We're the kicking around halfway instead of attacking their line.

It might sound exaggerated, but it really isn't. He does make that much difference, but people simply don't see it. I don't expect to change anyone's mind, but that's their problem and not mine.

I'll leave it there for now, but I'll also just add that he had more effect on our attack than our two halves combined. Every play was going through and the only times we ever looked dangerous were when he had some input.

He's better than decent on his best days, I just think that consistently, he's decent. That's no shabby thing still in professional rugby league though, don't get me wrong.

And I completely agree about his effort and commitment, but that's not enough alone. Maybe harsh, but it's a reality that there's no room for sentiment. That's arguably part of the reason we continue to renew the contracts of puddings rather than cut them adrift.

saw a full back tonite who could well turn out to be a good un

richard owen of cas

That is simply another example of him offering something that stands out because of others' not being good enough at their jobs, or the tactics being wrong. If we had a working halfback pairing and attacking patterns it would again be a case of his input having less importance.

We have a real issue in our team with players not doing the job required of them IMO. The fact that Tony can mask a couple of these is not cause to hold him aloft as a shining light. It would be/is the wrong solution to a serious problem.

I expect you'll know my feelings on the statistics provided. Suffice to say, they don't mean anything regarding Blaymire's ability compared to Tony's. I don't think Blaymire's a bad player, but he's another of the British crop of solid, safe, but ultimately lacking in attack, fullbacks.



It's responsible for a huge amount (not every yard, as, obviously, we do make yards when he hasn't returned it; when I said 'purely' I meant that we wouldn't have made 60+m on the set without that first play rather than saying that play was worth 60+m). It's responsible for yards that we wouldn't otherwise gain. Yards that are important in a team not making masses of ground.

And it is important, but I haven't seen anyone claim it's unique. Webb and Greenshields both provided the same in SL and there are a huge number of fullbacks in the NRL who do as well.

And on the last sentence, Webb and Greenshields aside, there aren't any fullbacks over here I'd take ahead of him for the same role. Duggan maybe, but he's lacking in size. Hodgson's good, but plays a very different role, and the rest are either solid and safe or . I don't want either of those types.



There's not a lot I can do about that really. I'll post what I feel is the right thing to say. If it sounds arrogant, so be it.



I agree. He does far too much work and, frankly, I'm surprised his body can take it every week. Unfortunately, though, it is often necessary due to the failings of others, and that's what frequently makes him stand-out as our best player.

One thing I'd say to clear up what I think you might be implying (both in this post and previously) is that I don't think Tony's a top class fullback. I don't think he's world class (as I've posted on here before: I remember saying last season that Berrigan, Carvell and Raynor were our only world class players). He probably wouldn't get a starting spot at fullback in the NRL now. He's very good, but there are problems in his game, things I've been through before and things that were evident tonight. For some reason though, any praise seems to result in the praiser almost being accused of putting him on a pedestal above all others when I don't think that's ever been the case.



I agree to an extent. Holding him aloft as a shining light is a little strong, but I don't see why pointing out what he does, why it's important to the team and why it frequently makes him our best player should be seen as a negative. Yes, a lot of his work is done because of the failings of others, but does that mean he should go without praise for doing that work? It's not his fault that others are so limited and surely commendation for putting in everything every week to attempt to drag others through would be more appropriate? I agree with your basic point, but I disagree with it being seen as a reason to play down his efforts.