I'm not massively over playing Lauakis role, it's his style to duck down into the challenge, to try and knock Nicklas over. I don't see how Westerman, once committed can change body position. The difference between the tackles was Mossop didn't duck into it.
You either put it down as unfortunate or you start punishing the intent.

He led with the shoulder and missed making it careless. If he'd hit him with his shoulder it then becomes Moa/Puletua ground but closer to a legal challenge than making contact with his arm.

I'm not disputing the fact it was clumsy, I agree he didn't mean to do it but it was a tired effort to make the tackle with the correct technique which renders it careless. As I mentioned in my previous post, he has to anticipate Lauaki leaning into the tackle, that's his responsibility as the defender.

Unrealistic expectations mate, nothing more. There are worse 'value for money' players in our squad.

If lauaki bends down into westermans arm then more the fool to him. Westerman and tother week puletua along with moa had their arms to their sides and non dileberately attacked the head. Its up to the attacker not to put their head in a dangerous position. If a defender bends low to tackle and catches a knee or hip to the head then he doesnt get a penalty

Are they?

Westerman's stats per game:

tries: 0.25
meters: 65.25
tackles: 25.4
missed tackles: 1.25
penalties: 0.75
errors: 0.6
carries: 11.5
offloads: 0.8
try assists: 0
tackle busts: 1.3

Richard Whiting's:

tries: 0.2
meters: 55
tackles: 20.8
missed tackles: 1
penalties: 0.55
errors: 0.5
carries: 8.45
offloads: 0.9
try assists: 0.15
tackle busts: 0.9

Not that bad like for like I'd say.

He's not the 'biggest waste of money ever' - there are loads of players more deserving of that crown - but equally, he's not of the sort of standard we need if we are to reach the heights we aspire to. If it was possible, I'd have him replaced at the end of the season.

Westerman would find himself a place in any 17 in the league. He should, however, be played consistently as a wide 2nd rower. His try assist for Gleeson in the CP derby last year was a real 'wow' moment, and is the level he can achieve given a consistent run there.

We'll have to agree to differ on that. Maybe I "don't understand his role", but I really don't think he's any more than an average player. The odd great pass doesn't change that.

I don't get all the sudden Westy bashing, I really don't. He captained the England Knights last season FFS. He's 22!

Just like John Barnes goal against Brazil



I seem to have opened up a can of worms with this thread

We don't have another 2nd rower at the club capable of that creativity to ghost through a gap then execute the pass.

Should have been sent of IMO as his challenge was worse that pulatua(sp) and moas

If only he did it more than twice a season.

Still, better than zero, eh?

Yes, but it's not enough to make him worth keeping, IMO. The rest of the time he's quite ordinary.

He really isn't, but that's your opinion.

It's also your opinion that he isn't.

Manu.

Westerman has not lived up to his price. He's also admitted that his form isn't good.

Manu doesn't ghost through gaps, he doesn't need gaps.

But it seems to be PG's opinion that he's a valued member of the team, so shall we leave it at that.

No. I'm not going to stop having/expressing an opinion because it may differ to that of our coach. In any event, it depends who you ask as to whether PG rates him or not. I've heard rumours to the contrary.

It was careless for me, probably get a one match ban.

As for Westerman I still think he has a big future with us, he has sturggled this season after being out for so long but has looked better the last few weeks. Hopefully he will play second row and not 13 as he looks better when playing out wide like he did for Cas. He is quite creative and should we get Chase this will help him game imo.

His major downside is that his one on one defence sometimes lets him down. I have noticed that he has been much more vocal lately and seems to be really motivated and is maybe starting to find his confidence again.

Also interestingly when AP spoke recently he mentioned a few players by name and Westy was one of them so I can only imagine he is well thought of at the club.

how can anyone say it was careless? he clearly fell into westys arm not shoulder if lauaki did not fall into it then it would have bin a great shot on him and would not of connected with the face. he should not get a ban at all and probably wont his face hit westys tricep thats how low lauaki was when contact was made.
just to add to this westy has been one of our best players recently seems to be another scape goat by a few on here. but never slag briscoe off though given how unintrested he looked at wigan and how useless he was in attack

It'll help the local licensees more likely

I can say it easily, his arm came away from the body and hit his head/face. It wasn't reckless or deliberate but it was a touch careless.