2007 was the start of the decline, not 2006. We got to a GF and had our best ever SL season. 2007 was the start of the decline.

2005 - 1. Briscoe, 6. Horne, 7. Brough, 9. Swain, 13. Cooke
2006 - 1. Briscoe, 6. Cooke, 7. Horne, 9. Swain, 13. Washbrook
2007 - 1. Tony (not a full back), 6. Horne, 7. Head (half a season), 9. Swain (half a season)/anyone left, 13. Any second rower
2008 - 1. Tony (not a full back, half a season)/anyone left, 6. Horne (half a season)/anyone left, 7. Dykes (half a season)/anyone left, 9. Berrigan (if he wasn't moved somewhere else)/Houghton/Lee, 13. Any second rower.
2009 - 1. Anyone and everyone, 6. Horne, 7. Thorman (worst signing ever), 9. Berrigan (if he wasn't moved somewhere else)/Houghton/Lee, 13. Any second rower.
2010 - Tansey, 6. Horne (half a season), 7. Long (half a season), 9. Houghton/Berrigan, 13. Fitzgibbon (another second rower).

There's a run down of our key positions and how well they were utilised in 2007-2010.
2008-9 is alarming how poor it was.
Absolutely no consistency at all, and I feel the same is coming this year.
We still have an injury prone half-back paring, and no obvious replacement, so it's going to be another case of "everyone and anyone".
Houghton, if he can make it without getting injured, might not be a problem. But if he does, again "everyone and anyone".
Will Tansey get suspended/moved about? No consistency at full back predicted for next year from me.
Will Westerman get a run at loose? Or will he be shoved into the second row? Or will he be used as a second row from 13?

We got the key positions right in 2005. We had back up options in key places. 2007, poor recruitment, no prepared for injuries. 2008, even worse recruitment, even worse prepared for injuries. 2009, somehow we managed to get even worse! 2010, step in the right direction, but still no back up. 2011, looks like we haven't learned!

I have very few expectations for next season.

Sums it up nicely Wellsy, 05 and 06 we had plenty of options in attack thus giving the opposition more to think about when defending against us. Nowadays we have 1 or 2 at most.

And that's just the key players! If you look at the quality of the pack, it makes some dismal reading to see how it declined!

2005 - Props: King, Carvell, Dowes, Thackray
2nd Rows: Kearney, McMenemy
Back up: Chester, McNicholas, Higgins

2006 - Props: King, Carvell, Dowes, Wheeldon
2nd Rows: Radford, McMenemy
Back up: Chester, Higgins, G. Horne
OUT - Thackray (released on disciplinary, replaced by youth), Kearney (retired, replaced by an ageing Radford), McNicholas (a bit rubbish really!)

2007 - Props: King, Carvell, Dowes, Wheeldon
2nd Rows: Radford, Manu and Tickle (one of them used at 13)
Back up: McMenemy, Maiava (awful!), G.Horne
OUT - Higgins (no improvement, replaced by Maiava!), Chester (past it, replaced by Tickle and Manu, but no loose)

2008 - Props: King, Carvell, Dowes, Cusack (average at best)
2nd Rows: Same
Back up: Wheeldon (lacking improvement), Burnett (Raw), G.Horne (lacking improvement), Thackray (signed in desperation
OUT - McMenemy (retired, not really replaced), Maiava (awful, but replaced with average)

2009 - Props: Dowes, Cusack, King, Thackray and anyone who they happened to have because we were desperate (Cordoba, Moa, Lauaki)
2nd Rows: Same
Back up: Same
OUT - Carvell (because he was probably fed up of the direction the club was going in).

MASSIVE decline into 2009, were we didn't really have a settled pack at all.

2010 - Props: Radford (a 2nd row), O'Meley, Cusack, Moa
2nd Rows: Manu, Tickle, Fitzgibbon (as a loose)
Back up: Dowes, Lauaki
OUT - King (past it, replaced by O'Meley), Thackray (past it, replaced by moving Radders and getting Fitz), Cordoba (stop gap)

2011 - Props: O'Meley, Radford (second row), Moa, Fitz? (second row)
2nd Rows: Manu, Tickle (Westerman loose)
Back up: Dowes, Lauaki
OUT - Cusack (average, and replaced by moving a 2nd row).

We improved massively in 2010, but haven't really gotten rid of the underlying problems of playing people out of position. We seemed to just stock up on second rowers from 2006 onwards. WHY?! The balance of the squad is just horrendous in my opinion.

And then there's the three quarter line which has never really been that glamorous but still managed to get worse!

2005 - Wings: Blacklock (dodgy at times, but was there all the time), Raynor.
Centres: Yeaman, Eager (who never played!)
Back up: Saxton, Tony, Whiting, G.Horne, Barnett Jnr, Dixon.

2006 - Wings: Blacklock, Raynor.
Centres: Yeaman, Domic
Back up: Saxton, Tony, Whiting, G.Horne, Dixon
OUT - Eager (poor, replaced by Domic), Barnett Jnr (not replaced)

2007 - Wings: Sing, Raynor
Centres: Yeaman, Domic (half a season)
Back up: Tony/Briscoe (whoever wasn't FB), Whiting, G.Horne, Hall
OUT - Blacklock (retired, replaced by Sing, very similar), Domic (half way through, not replaced), Dixon (not improved enough, replaced promoting Hall), Saxton (not good enough, not replaced).

2008 - Wings: Sing, Raynor
Centres: Yeaman, Hall (promoted too soon and not good enough)
Back up: Whiting (injured all season), G.Horne, Byrne (average Aussie), T.Briscoe (very raw, but luckily very talented), Broughton/Williams (short term loans because we were so short).
OUT - Domic (left halfway through 2007, replaced by promoting Hall too quickly), S.Briscoe/Tony (as Tony was moved to FB so Briscoe not needed, replaced by Byrne)

2009 - Wings: Calderwood, Raynor
Centres: Yeaman, Byrne (because there was no-one else and Hall wasn't good enough, but got injured straight away and only played twice)
Back up: Whiting, T.Briscoe, G.Horne, Broughton (on loan again because we were still desperately short!), Hall.
OUT - Sing (retired, replaced by Calderwood), no other changes (which was criminal after the shocking lack of depth the year before!)

So just look at 2006. Look at how much back-up we had (5 players). Look at how they are either decent and proven utility players or good up and coming raw players with potential.
Then look at 2008/9. One proven starting centre, and one less back up player (Broughton on loan does not count!). And we only had Whiting for 2 games, so only 4 players in 2008! No proven utility player other than Whiting. The rest are raw, or have had too many chances. And look how much we tried to do something about it between 2008 and 9. We replaced our retiring winger! Good recruitment!

2010 - Wings: Calderwood, Briscoe
Centres: Yeaman, no-one
Back up: Whiting, Turner, Hall, Lyne
OUT - G.Horne (too many chances, replaced by Turner), Raynor (discipline, replaced by promoting Briscoe, who was replaced by promoting Lyne), Byrne (not replaced), Broughton (no loan replacements).

So, 2010 saw us not only saw us not sort out the centre problem, but also have even LESS back up! My God!

2011 - Wings: Briscoe, Sharp
Centres: Yeaman, Whiting
Back up: Turner, Lyne
OUT - Calderwood (too many injuries, replaced by Sharp), Hall (too many chances, not replaced).

Whiting promotion could go well if he's stuck with, but I get the feeling he'll be moved to FB, with Tansey being back-up half/hooker. Then we only have two back ups. There's only Cunningham and J.Briscoe left, who only had one game between them season prior. Too raw to have to rely on. If Tansey gets used as half back, and Whiting FB, then we only have Lyne! Our depth is the worst it's been in this area and I think this has been massively overlooked!

Unless Cunningham and J.Briscoe turn out to be superstars, we are going to be extremely exposed in the wings a lot this season.

This is Agar's team now. Personally, I don't think he's learned much at all from the club's past mistakes. If you look at the quality of players at Saints, Wigan, Leeds, Warrington and Huddersfield (not only in the starting line-up but also in depth), you've got to wonder what makes us think we have a chance of challenging this year. If anything, we're weaker. Warrington and Huddersfield have recruited extremely well over the years, and have brought through youth at the right time. That's how they've got to where they are now (as well as excellent coaches). We have recruited poorly, and rushed youth into a depleted team, and then discarded them as being poor. So much potential wasted. Briscoe has been a star in the making since his debut in 2008, but he was never first choice until 2010. That's what we need to be doing with our youth. Easing them in, not throwing them in at the deep end because there is no-one else.

We need better quality in the starting line up, and MORE back up. You tend to only lose one or the other in the space of one or two seasons. How on Earth did we lose both so quickly?!

I can't go, but (obviously) would be interested as to whether we made a profit last year. I'd guess not, since this time last year the accounts were filed early to "reassure" the fans, and we've not heard anything on November 2010's accounts yet.

I disagree. While the decline in results started from 2007 onwards, the seeds were sown in 2005 when we went with quantity over quality in the squad.

Peoples memories are getting very selective. This board was stuffed full of complaints in both 2005 and 2006 about how one-dimensional our attack was, and how boring our style of play.

I know were not gonna get names but it would be interesting to know if Rich has already got targets, and how far down the road he is with our 2012 recruitment drive.

I know it sounds a little bit previous but we have to be ahead of the game imo.

I'd be surprised if we haven't. Crowds were up, presumably retail sales too and we don't appear to have incurred any major additional expenditure. Presumably our finance costs are down on recent years now we're debt free

They haven't even sorted out 2011 yet

We made a small profit in 2009 of £78k, or 1.6% if our turnover was £5m. Wouldn't take much to make a loss in that context. I've no idea whether we made a profit or not, but normally Rule's quick to get a positive result out there, that's all, and we've not heard anything.

Precisely!

We've had this debate before, but if turnover is circa £5m and player costs + stadium is circa £2.1m, then I can't see what the other £2.9m goes on.

We went with quantity over quality due to the horrendous injury run we had in 2003. I think 2004-6 were our best seasons by far. OK, the SL season in 2005 was lacklustre, but that's because we had a boring negative coach in John Kear (who I blame for the poor end of season form in 2004).

2004, we finished 3rd (narrowly missing 2nd because of the last 6 games under Kear when McRae went back to Aus to be with his family after losing I think his Dad). Our key players in 2004-6 were pretty much the same. Briscoe, Cooke, Horne, Swain, Chester/Smith in 2004. Briscoe, Horne, Brough, Swain, Cooke in 2005. Briscoe, Cooke, Horne, Swain, Washbrook in 2006. We had a nice settled spine to the team.

2006 was by far the best season of attacking rugby I've seen from us, and periods of 2004 we were unstoppable (winning 70-4 and 82-6 in a couple of games that year).

This board will always be full of complaints about something. I wouldn't use it as a gauge to how well we actually played them years! You've talked about quantity over quality though, and this year I feel we have little of both personally.

You've mentioned this before and I still think you're replacing one-sided with one-dimensional. We were very predictable in that we only seemed interested in attacking down our left-hand side, but we still played more open and creative rugby within that confined area than we have done for the past 2 years. The 2005 side had more dummy rummers, support play, cut-out passes, and offloads on one half of the pitch than the 2010 team had on a full one.

Leeds

Should be some interesting questions if no signings are made

Well there is a lot of other staff than just the players! Not to mention community developments, coaching, travel, etc.

Perhaps someone could give us a better breakdown?

Surely that cant be beaten

why what was last years april fools joke? Is that when Agar got a new contract

Yes.

Yup, 2 1/2 year extension announced on April 1. As a Daily Mail columnist would say, "You couldn't make it up"

The only question should be about a back up half.....Agar and Rule said last year this is a priority and we still havent progressed and there ARE players out there.....Apparently Briggs was very good for Bulls today.

Briggs was a missed opportunity for the club and we should have got him. What worries me is that people are saying Long is looking to play next season as well.

It's not only Briggs, but more than likely Moore as well, whilst we chase overseas players.

You seen much of Moore? Is he better then what we have?