And keep other sources of income happy as detailed above.

Not ignored mate, just given less credence



on a serious note, I cannot for the life of me think of a valid reason why the crowds would be artificially inflated

And which large sponsorship is currently up for negotiation?

How do we get around the tax implications?

Are the SMC part of this conspiracy to defraud? Because that's what it would be - fraud. Against the HMRC and against any sponsor that they convinced to sign up on the back of falsified crowd numbers.

It makes no sense whatsoever. None. At all.

When Woolworths were going under they still spent millions on advertising, point of sale etc etc, paying the SMC a small fortune for escalated figures is no different really. Glorify our rather poor product with exaggerating sales enticing greater sponsorship.

Doubt it very much like but is totally plausible.

It may make sense to someone, maybe someone within the club that sees that bigger picture. Whether you like it or not or whether you say our systems are fool proof etc these kind of things can and do happen. It would be naive to suggest they dont.

And thats where im coming from. Im not saying they are doing it, im saying there is a possibility that they could, and there would be a limited logic for doing it too. Just trying to remove the blinkers from some.

No system is completely foolproof. However, the system at the KC would take some effort, nous, and cash to circumvent. Three things that our board are lacking.

You also haven't explained how we'd get around the legal implications.

Plus the figures don't add up. For the particular game in question, if we counted all 9,000 season pass holders that would mean that away fans, walk-ups, complimentary tickets and corporates totalled just 3,000 people.

Doesn't seem too likely, does it?

I'm a big fan of Occam's Razor in situations like this. Far more likely that the notorious unreliability of fan estimates of crowd numbers is at work.

FFS. I honestly thought you were better than that - smiley or no smiley.

You just seemed unwilling to accept that it may happen, im willing to accept that it may not. Isnt that blinkered?

Who legally enforces anything here? Are they audited? Does someone count true figures of fans in the stadium vs submitted figures?

Yes its more likely that fans estimates are wrong, however its also an option that they arent.

I'm unwilling to accept that it has happened or is happening since there is no evidence for it nor logical reason for it. In fact there is evidence, detailed above, to suggest that it isn't and hasn't. That's not blinkers, that's logic and common sense.

Hypothetically it could be done. And hypothetically someone could be stupid enough to think that it might be a good idea. That's not what was originally being argued, however. A few posts ago you said that it [iwas[/i happening. Which is the point I'm arguing.

If you want to start talking extremely unlikely hypothetical situations there's probably a thread on the Sin Bin about faked moon landings or some such.

Is Agar or Rule involved in that too. Its bound to be fake then.

Can see no more than 200 from our lot this week, with no trains running back from Hull to Manchester a lot of people will decide against it. Our lot get the train to every away, but have had to find lifts of different people now just to get home from the game.

what time is the last train?

Do you really think the board would be willing to commit fraud and suffer all the possible ramifications just to make the attendance figures look good for the sponsors?

Its only fraud if they get investigated and caught, thats why i asked the question earlier about who audits/regulates this type of thing.

LAst train to manchester is at 22.20, but it dosn't get you back untill 3.42 so no-ones gonna be on that, the one after is a 5.20am

3.42?? Does that change at Kings Cross?

The accounts are audited and have to be approved and submitted. Similarly a tax return. Both will list sources of revenue, including numbers of paying customers. It's a little naive to assume that HMRC will just take the word of the club for how many paying customers they've had over the season, particularly if there's a large variance from publicly-declared figures.

It's also a little naive to assume that current or future sponsors will rely solely on declared crowd numbers when making decisions.

thats pathetic do you go via the channel tunnel

2 changes at Doncaster and York.

So they stipulate actual numbers of paying customers? and they stipulate what price each individual customer has paid? So the numbers of paying customers may include x number at £5, x number at £10, x number at £20, x number at £55 in a corporate etc etc Wheres the proof to back this up. Creative accounting i guess where needed. Happens everywhere. I just dont get how you think this audit is going to be any more than 90% accurate and why clubs wont fiddle it to suit them.

Sponsor generally rely on strength of the brand. One of the key indicators around strength of the brand when the product is a rugby league team is local support of the team, key measure of this is home attendances as well as away attendances. I never ever said rely solely on crowd numbers, but its a bit naive to dismiss the impact around sponsorship!!

I'm not sure of the exact mechanism, but I'm assuming they can't just pluck a number out of the air and have everyone believe them. Certainly not the way it works at my company. We have to account for where every last penny of turnover has come from and where every last penny of expenditure has gone.


Local sponsors [imay[/i be concerned with bums on seats in the stadium. Major sponsors will only be concerned with where we finish in the table and how often we get shown on Sky. Local support means diddly-squat nowadays unless your target market is exclusively local and without access to broadcast media.

Could fly to Cyprus in less time

I know, bizarre isn't it, but far more believable than more than 4000 people turning up and paying over £20 to watch that shower of shiite

Is that OK then?