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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"Agreed. 42 first team games under his belt and his defence is not up to SL standard IMO. How many SL teams would take him as a one of their first choice centres?'"
Thats the problem, he is still very poor positionally and maybe not up to first grade standard week in and week out because of it, can we afford to persist with him on potential alone? as you say not too manay teams would have him as a first choice but I bet he wont be short of offers from bigger clubs then ourselves for next season willing to gamble on him.
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| Quote ="jordanp"Thats the problem, he is still very poor positionally and maybe not up to first grade standard week in and week out because of it, can we afford to persist with him on potential alone? as you say not too manay teams would have him as a first choice but I bet he wont be short of offers from bigger clubs then ourselves for next season willing to gamble on him.'"
I'd rather get an established centre in. IMO we're weak at centre - Yeamo's not in great form, Briscoe's out for the season, Byrne's released, G Horne/Whiting are just stopgaps in the centres - not their best position and Hall's been poor this season and hasn't kicked on after 42 first team games.
I'd get a good established centre who can put Calderwood away, use Briscoe as cover, and release Hall. People talk about him going to Rovers, but they have Webster, Welham, Walker, plus Cockayne as cover. All would be ahead of him IMO.
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"I'd rather get an established centre in. IMO we're weak at centre - Yeamo's not in great form, Briscoe's out for the season, Byrne's released, G Horne/Whiting are just stopgaps in the centres - not their best position and Hall's been poor this season and hasn't kicked on after 42 first team games.
I'd get a good established centre who can put Calderwood away, use Briscoe as cover, and release Hall. People talk about him going to Rovers, but they have Webster, Welham, Walker, plus Cockayne as cover. All would be ahead of him IMO.'"
But its Rovers so they would sign him anyway !!
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| Quote ="MR BOJANGLES"We all know which club Hall will go to if Agar washes his hands with him !!
Then it will be sods law that given a run of games he starts to find some form just in time for the derby !!!'"
Wasnt that the fear that stopped Hull from releasing Hall at the end of last season when Rovers were willing to offer him a way out? Seems childish to me when you could use the cap space to sign somebody that Agar rates.
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| Quote ="R.B.A"Wasnt that the fear that stopped Hull from releasing Hall at the end of last season when Rovers were willing to offer him a way out? Seems childish to me when you could use the cap space to sign somebody that Agar rates.'"
Or has a clue HOW to coach. I can't help feeling that a good coach would have turned Craig around so he would be a regular 1st teamer.
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| Quote ="willowred"Craig Hall just needs to be coached by someone who could take him to the next level, he has obvious talent but Agar is the wrong person to get hold of somebody as naturally gifted as Hall. Should of signed for Rovers and let Justin do his stuff'" Spot on, if you would have said to me 2 seasons ago Welham would be the established SL centre not Hall i would have tried to get you sectioned.
The best thing for Hall is for him to move on but we are too afraid the decision to release him will come to bite us on the ass, so he is rotting in the Reserve grade.
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| No doubt he'll be a bit hacked off too that he is missing out on appearance money too , so I think a loan move is the next option.
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"Agreed. 42 first team games under his belt and his defence is not up to SL standard IMO. How many SL teams would take him as a one of their first choice centres?'"
The stats show that Welhams defence isnt really up to much but weve stuck with him...
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| Yeaman's defence was poor when he was first in the team , though he was somewhat younger than Hall is now IIRC.
Hall has possibly become a bit of a scapegoat for Agar , though Peter Sharp openly criticised him too on a couple of occasions when he was in charge.
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| Quote ="SCF"The stats show that Welhams defence isnt really up to much but weve stuck with him...'"
Hall is potentially way ahead of welham, but welham is being coached much more effectively, isn't being pilloried in public for his failings and has, perhaps, a better attitude towards the game
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| Quote ="KNOCK OFF NIGEL"Its less about Motu and more the fact that I think Raynor could offer us more than any other player at Full Back.
Add to that a few Wing spots for Hall where I think he's suited anyhow.'"
So we finally get our first choice fullback back in the side and we then play a winger there, jesus
Hall should be playing centre, that's his position, it's an obvsious choice especially when it means Whiting could then go and cover Washy at 13, the thing is Agar obviously has a problem with him and depsite him beig under contract I would not be surprised to see Hall leave at the end of the season.
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| Quote ="R.B.A"Wasnt that the fear that stopped Hull from releasing Hall at the end of last season when Rovers were willing to offer him a way out? Seems childish to me when you could use the cap space to sign somebody that Agar rates.'"
Completely agree. TBH I was surprised we re-signed him. Nobody wins in the current scenario. Nothing wrong with letting people go and seeing them flourish - we've benefitted from Leeds doing it with Raynor, Carvell etc and it didn't harm them either. Maybe it'd be OK seeing him and Briscoe as back-up to a senior back line including a decent right centre, but just don't see he's a first choice SL player yet, and whilst I'm not sure Briscoe is there yet either, he's got the better all round game. Hall's not going to get there playing in our reserves. Would get far more development on loan to an NL1 club. Just hope he follows Tommy Lee's example in terms of attitude and application and works really hard to get back to his best.
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"Completely agree. TBH I was surprised we re-signed him. Nobody wins in the current scenario. Nothing wrong with letting people go and seeing them flourish - we've benefitted from Leeds doing it with Raynor, Carvell etc and it didn't harm them either. Maybe it'd be OK seeing him and Briscoe as back-up to a senior back line including a decent right centre, but just don't see he's a first choice SL player yet, and whilst I'm not sure Briscoe is there yet either, he's got the better all round game. Hall's not going to get there playing in our reserves. Would get far more development on loan to an NL1 club. Just hope he follows Tommy Lee's example in terms of attitude and application and works really hard to get back to his best.'"
Most of that post is utter twonk Mr B. Personally i would be picking Hall in front of Yeaman and Whiting. I get hacked off listening to all those deadheads claiming Hall's defence is poor yet continuing to turn a blind eye to the very same shortcomings of Yeaman, Whiting and G Horne. I hope Hall moves on to a club that appreciates his ability and is allowed to progress and develop into the top class centre most think he'll become.
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| Quote ="R.B.A"Wasnt that the fear that stopped Hull from releasing Hall at the end of last season when Rovers were willing to offer him a way out? Seems childish to me when you could use the cap space to sign somebody that Agar rates.'"
Correct on both points.
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| Quote ="Gordon Gekko"Most of that post is utter twonk Mr B. Personally i would be picking Hall in front of Yeaman and Whiting. I get hacked off listening to all those deadheads claiming Hall's defence is poor yet continuing to turn a blind eye to the very same shortcomings of Yeaman, Whiting and G Horne. I hope Hall moves on to a club that appreciates his ability and is allowed to progress and develop into the top class centre most think he'll become.'"
Tend to agree with all of that TBH.
I feel that Hall has been treated poorly by Agar in comparison to some other players at the club. Maybe there are some other things going on that aren't apparent, but looking in from the outside he seems to have been on the receiving end of some harsh treatment.
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| Quote ="Gordon Gekko"Most of that post is utter twonk Mr B. Personally i would be picking Hall in front of Yeaman and Whiting. I get hacked off listening to all those deadheads claiming Hall's defence is poor yet continuing to turn a blind eye to the very same shortcomings of Yeaman, Whiting and G Horne. I hope Hall moves on to a club that appreciates his ability and is allowed to progress and develop into the top class centre most think he'll become.'"
Yeaman's defence this year has been great, Witings is good and I admit Horne missed a few. But Hall's defence is terrible - it's as simple as that. He has a great attacking flair and accelleration off the mark that you can't teach, and an uncanny knack of finding the tryline. I really rate him as a prospect and expect/hope that Agar will play him again this year at centre now that the grounds are harder. I don't think Saints is the game though because they know he has recently been low on confidence and would target him pitilessly. I think he needs to play either a lower competitive grade (not in the reserves) or SL level to sort his defensive frailties out - but, in my opinion, his defence is nowhere near as good as the three you have mentioned (yet).
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| Quote ="Kosh"Tend to agree with all of that TBH.
I feel that Hall has been treated poorly by Agar in comparison to some other players at the club. Maybe there are some other things going on that aren't apparent, but looking in from the outside he seems to have been on the receiving end of some harsh treatment.'"
Whilst I agree and have said as much abou the way Hall seems to have been treated I would not say Hall is completely blameless. He like any other player has to learn fom his mistakes and yet he constantly makes the same errors time and time again. His attitude has also been questioned once or twice in the past and so it's difficult for us to judge without knowing what goes on day in/out.
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| Quote ="Kosh"Tend to agree with all of that TBH.
I feel that Hall has been treated poorly by Agar in comparison to some other players at the club. Maybe there are some other things going on that aren't apparent, but looking in from the outside he seems to have been on the receiving end of some harsh treatment.'"
I'd go so far as to say that it bears a lot of similarities to a grown man picking on a young kid in the workplace, at times hanging him out dry humiliatingly for everyone to see.
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| Quote ="downtheante"Yeaman's defence this year has been great, Witings is good and I admit Horne missed a few. But Hall's defence is terrible - it's as simple as that. He has a great attacking flair and accelleration off the mark that you can't teach, and an uncanny knack of finding the tryline. I really rate him as a prospect and expect/hope that Agar will play him again this year at centre now that the grounds are harder. I don't think Saints is the game though because they know he has recently been low on confidence and would target him pitilessly. I think he needs to play either a lower competitive grade (not in the reserves) or SL level to sort his defensive frailties out - but, in my opinion, his defence is nowhere near as good as the three you have mentioned (yet).'"
Lets agree to disagree.
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| Quote ="Gordon Gekko"Lets agree to disagree.'"
agreed
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| Quote ="downtheante"Yeaman's defence this year has been great, Witings is good and I admit Horne missed a few. But Hall's defence is terrible - it's as simple as that. He has a great attacking flair and accelleration off the mark that you can't teach, and an uncanny knack of finding the tryline. I really rate him as a prospect and expect/hope that Agar will play him again this year at centre now that the grounds are harder. I don't think Saints is the game though because they know he has recently been low on confidence and would target him pitilessly. I think he needs to play either a lower competitive grade (not in the reserves) or SL level to sort his defensive frailties out - but, in my opinion, his defence is nowhere near as good as the three you have mentioned (yet).'"
It certainly hasnt, cost us a few trys this year.
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| Quote ="Dave K."It certainly hasnt, cost us a few trys this year.'"
and saved us loads
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| Quote ="PAUL M"Whilst I agree and have said as much abou the way Hall seems to have been treated I would not say Hall is completely blameless. He like any other player has to learn fom his mistakes and yet he constantly makes the same errors time and time again. His attitude has also been questioned once or twice in the past and so it's difficult for us to judge without knowing what goes on day in/out.'"
Agree with that, but in terms of attitude I think the other side of it is that he obviously doesn't respond well to the way he is being treated so it about time there was a change of tack. Coaches should be capable of different man-management techniques, and he's been around the club long enough for them to realise how to best handle him by now.
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| Personally I'm worried about Hall's defence, his mistakes he was making week in are my main concern
Saying that he has been played out of position.
Dont think he has played one game at centre for the first team this year.
Can see why he was dropped, but he should have had another chance by now.
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| Quote ="carl_spackler"Agree with that, but in terms of attitude I think the other side of it is that he obviously doesn't respond well to the way he is being treated so it about time there was a change of tack. Coaches should be capable of different man-management techniques, and he's been around the club long enough for them to realise how to best handle him by now.'"
Now that I certainly do agree with.
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