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| Read a really interesting article by Brian Smith on his website recently addressing why some teams struggle to be creative in attack.
His argument emphasised the importance of coaching - less in terms of creating plans - but in simulating game like situations in training for players to develop both their creative skills and decision making without being slated for their mistakes. Mistakes simply lead to more practice until the creative skills and decision making improve and are hard wired giving confidence to perform under pressure.
This sounds obvious in a way but makes you think about our team. Last Saturday, you could see an almost hard wired confidence in our defence, while it was obvious there was no confidence at all in attack, even though we clearly do have players with potential to be skilful and creative.
There has to be a reason for this, and following Smithies argument it is hard to look past coaching or training methods, instead of people's natural tendencies to say we should change personnel again(!) or that our forwards were dominated when they were not.
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| Quote ="east hull FC fan"It's not wrong to think that our halves struggle to be creative because they don't have time and space because our forwards are continuously put on their backs.
Richard Horne was top of the try assists, we can create. We have a rank attack because we have a rank pack.'"
Completely wrong. We have scored less tries than Castleford, wakefield and widnes, none of whom have better packs than us. Even poor sides can be creative if they're organised. I'm not surprised that gentle did his coaching apprenticeship at the club which has relied on the creativity of benji marshall for the last decade or so but when he doesn't fire they're poor
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"Completely wrong. We have scored less tries than Castleford, wakefield and widnes, none of whom have better packs than us. Even poor sides can be creative if they're organised. I'm not surprised that gentle did his coaching apprenticeship at the club which has relied on the creativity of benji marshall for the last decade or so but when he doesn't fire they're poor'"
You're deluding yourself if you think our pack is better than Wakefield's. I'm not convinced it's been better than the other two's this year either.
On paper means feck all, and I've seen our pack bossed by all three of those teams at least once this year.
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| Quote ="east hull FC fan"You're deluding yourself if you think our pack is better than Wakefield's. I'm not convinced it's been better than the other two's this year either.
On paper means feck all, and I've seen our pack bossed by all three of those teams at least once this year.'"
OK, well you continue to believe you're right but one day you'll come round to my way of thinking just like you have on everything else I've been right about in the past
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| Thought this was about why the hell we never took the goal kicks offered .
From the off could of been 2 up .
If we would of took them been another game but with our best kicker on the field we turned every one down only to loose the ball second tackle.
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"OK, well you continue to believe you're right but one day you'll come round to my way of thinking just like you have on everything else I've been right about in the past'"
I'm incapable of stupidity Jake, so you may be waiting a while.
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| Quote ="east hull FC fan"I'm incapable of stupidity Jake, so you may be waiting a while.'"
Is that an oxymoron?
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"Is that an oxymoron?'"
It depends, what do you think an oxymoron is?
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Club Owner | 53839 | No Team Selected |
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| I have confidence in the two halves but they do need to improve their communication and the roles they each play. Stick Horne with either one of them and you immediately have a better balance as Horne brings a running game and makes us more direct. Miller and DJ are often too similar but, they have not played together much so it should improve.
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| ok ive bit ,whats an oxymoron
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| Quote ="hull2524"ok ive bit ,whats an oxymoron'"
A cow wearing a hoody
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| Quote ="east hull FC fan"It depends, what do you think an oxymoron is?'"
Someone stupidly typing that they're incapable of stupidity? Is your genius in English or something useful?
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| Quote ="hull2524"ok ive bit ,whats an oxymoron'"
Dim kid with acne
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| Quote ="Staffs FC"I don't think we were dominated in the ruck we just lost the ball too much. Miller had a poor game although it wasn't for the want of trying. Horne was continuously our biggest attacking threat until he got injured although I have no problem with his non-selection due to lack of fitness. =#0000BFThat said before the game many on here were happy to see Crooks selected but not Horne on the basis of his fitness which seemed a bit odd. Whether he would have changed anything had he played is pure conjecture - I tend to think that he would have offered a more direct running threat. Whilst I'm a fan of Whiting as a sub he continues to be our most (only) creative forward and proved again yesterday that he can win attacking collisions and offload to supporting players. I'm not sure he can do the minutes Westerman does so maybe bench is the only option however he causes defences problems and maybe we need a bit less graft and a bit more craft.'"
I'm not sure about that, and even if so it's still not that odd. As I said before the game, we have 2 fit halfbacks and a fit fullback, we don’t have another fit centre, so it was a case of having to gamble on Crooks, not being happy to. The only other option would have been to play Whiting there, which would have made our pack even worse. Had Arundel been ok I’d have gone with him, personally.
What I didn't expect was that Crooks would forget how to catch a ball in his absence.
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| Quote ="cod'ead"I think Westerman could cause problems to defences, unfortunately we appear to have coached his ballhandling skills out of him and prefer him to act as a 3rd prop. I'm sick of seeing players like Westy and Ellis just donkeying the ball up, it's a waste'"
Agree about that. I'm also sick of seeing us continually tee Westerman and Tickle up for crash balls at the line no matter what the conditions or how often they drop it. After a certain point it's not just their fault.
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| Quote ="east hull FC fan"I'm a massive fan of Westerman, but not at 13. Think Gentle feels he needs Tickle on the pitch for goal kicking, so Westy gets shoved in the middle.'"
With what we have signed up for next year, I'd personally go with Ellis & Westerman in the 2nd row, Pitts at loose, and Whiting on the bench.
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| Quote ="pmarrow"Our pack is the problem IMO, they get beaten too easy and =#0000BFhave a way too slow PTB. They offer little in offloads and when they do its when they don't need to.
It takes a full backline to produce tries though and plenty of other teams score without there halfbacks creating tries.
I'm just hoping there is some sort of long term masterplan on the cards.'"
That's been our problem for the last 5 years. I've said it before, if a coach could crack that for us we'd make more progress from that one improvement than all others possible combined.
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| The truth is that Gentle selected the team that most people on here last week wanted him to pick.
Most people were excited at the prospect of Crooks returning
Not many people wanted Horne to play.
Nearly everyone thought that Shaul should play FB and that Miller and Holdsworth should be the halves.
Hardly anyone said Green should be in the 17.
It was the right team and a good enough team to win but the players failed to deliver.
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| Quote ="Diogenes"The truth is that Gentle selected the team that most people on here last week wanted him to pick.
Most people were excited at the prospect of Crooks returning
Not many people wanted Horne to play.
Nearly everyone thought that Shaul should play FB and that Miller and Holdsworth should be the halves.
Hardly anyone said Green should be in the 17.
It was the right team and a good enough team to win but the players failed to deliver.'"
Agree 100%.
I think Saturday was the closest I've ever been to 'can't blame the coach for that one'. He was let down badly, and not just by one or two, or just the kids, there were established pros out there who just weren't good enough on the day.
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| Quote ="@airlie_bird"Having seen us play in every final since 1979 I can honestly say that was our worst performance in a final in all that time. (I might argue that a 2nd div play off at OT against Huddersfield was on a par but we had achieved our goal that year) As a result there is bound to be a lot of soul searching going on.
Bottom line is we would have taken a Wembley final at the start of the season. Unfortunately since last November we have had a world class half mickey us around only to take big bucks in Oz. (yes we may have been a little green thinking he would come, but none of us knew exactly how negotiations went so we can't comment) We have not had a settled half back pairing as a result of that and injuries all season.
Horne is regularly out for about two months a season and however well he was playing when in the team (and he was by far and away our best player) it was inevitable that he would be out soon enough.
We are then left scratching around for a replacement. Miller whilst potentially being the answer is simply that "potentially". He is 21 now and finding his feet in a foreign country away from home and trying to gel with a new team and more importantly Holdsworth who has also been injured a lot of the time.
Now not one of us on here raised doubts about their ability when we were beating Warrington again. If you did then stick a link on here. I have no doubt that this season is now virtually over but come February when these two have had a full PRE season under their belt and I predict vast improvements in their ability to work together for the good of the team. Then we will have the problem of keeping hold of them as the NRL beckons again. But that's for another day.
As for the pack well we can argue about size. PG wants a mobile pack that can do big minutes. We appear to be losing some experience this season. I hope Lynch does not go but if he does well we will move on. I have seen arguments about next seasons pack but what people are failing to mention is that Watts Pitts Westy Green etc are all a year old in terms of experience. They will continue to improve. Have a little faith in them. We have seen enough of them to know that they have what it takes at SL level. What we need is consistency.
The backs are showing signs that they can be exceptional. The jury for me is still out on Crookes but the rest I am confident in. Arundel seems a natural successor to Yeaman and I expect him to be playing more than Yeamo next year providing they are all fit. Briscoe is a loss so I would be looking for a decent replacement for him. The fight between Shaul and Shannon will be good next year. Shaul maybe accommodated on the wing for periods. Who knows.
All in all we ARE moving in the right direction from where we were under Agar. Still not 100% sure PG will take us all the way or if we need someone with a little but of the X factor to come in and kick us on. But who that is lord only knows.
All good sides over the many years I have watched RL are built on a solid foundation of defence. We have that foundation. We now need the off season to kick on from basic attack. We have seen evidence recently of that side improving Whitings try in the semi was an example. It all takes time.
So yes its time for soul searching especially after such a poor performance on a big stage, but lets not be aggressive and abusive about it. Take a step back a deep breath and stand tall and proud together. Rome as was said was not built in a day.
Yes examples of vast improvement have been seen t other clubs. Wigan under McGuire but come on Kath and co ran us into the ground. It will take more than a few quid to get over night success.'"
Well said Excellent post.
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| Quote ="carl_spackler"Agree 100%.
I think Saturday was the closest I've ever been to 'can't blame the coach for that one'. He was let down badly, and not just by one or two, or just the kids, there were established pros out there who just weren't good enough on the day.'"
Same here , Gentle looked lost for words at that shambles after the game , Also we never seem to just have one player making these errors , It's right across the board .
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| spot on feathers
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| Quote ="B0NES"Same here , Gentle looked lost for words at that shambles after the game , Also we never seem to just have one player making these errors , It's right across the board .'"
Its because we're a close knit team. Great together and sh*t together.
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| Quote ="Hessle Roader"Its because we're a close knit team. Great together and sh*t together.'"
Sadly, rather too much of the latter and not enough of the former this season.
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| Quote ="Rock God X"Sadly, rather too much of the latter and not enough of the former this season.'"
Ain't that the truth!!
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