I see no facts. Only a speculative report from a pro left daily rag.

Migration Watch is not an 'independent body'. It's a pressure group with an agenda, just like many others on both sides of the political spectrum. You'll only get one side of the story from them.

Racism is not an opinion.

HTH.

If you speak to people actually working in the area of immigration you'll get substantially the same story. There have been a number of changes to the system in the last few years which have started to address some of the main issues and get things under better control. These changes are simply ignored by those who would prefer a system based on the colour of an applicants skin.

No, its a state of mind.

Ah...the old colour of you skin soundbite.

So there is nobody proposing such a system then?

It's a well-defined and easily spotted fact of life. One that deserves no respect and needs challenging whenever it rears its ugly head.

The BNP maybe, but i don't support them.

The issue is wider than the colour of ones skin and you know it.

Everytime the subject of immigration is discussed, those that seek to control it and reduce the number entering this country are called racists. Why??

So if the numbers are going down now, as you are trying to make us beleive, does that mean that those who have introduced these changes to the system are racist??

Indeed.

Those who consistantly use race as the basis of their argument need challenging at every opportunity.

You won't be saying that when your boss (if you have one) is 'having to let you go' because he has found a new breed of cheaper labour.
I was accused of being racist on the sin-bin forum because the numpties 'modding' that wear blinkers. All I mentioned was the same as I have just done here. At the time I was staying in London with the job I was on.....Now...If you happen to do this working in OUR CAPITOL CITY THING...or have already done so then you too will discover that English people are a serious minority there. The only whites you seem to come across are Eastern Europeans. I'm not saying 'Send 'em all home' or spouting hatred towards them....I'm merely stating an out and out FACT!!!!I've recently just finished a shopfit in Wembley. The first day on this shopfit....I went onto Wembley High Street and realised that mine was the only white face...Again...Fact!!! The only time you see non ethnics in Wembley is when there is an event at the Stadium....or shopfitters are having lunch

.
I did however find the place and people friendly (apart from the scrote who smashed my car window to nick my Ipod

)
The BNP do have a few valid points....but spoil themselves with thier obvious hatred of foreigners and gays......BUT.....The flow of foreign nationals does seriously need to be stopped asap or we will be THE MINORITY in our country......Again....another FACT!!! Basicaly....i've been there and seen it, i'm not just making up numbers on a thread!

Having any negative view about any foreign national makes you racist apparently

If you define around 70% of the population as being 'a serious minority' then, yes.



No now we get down to it. When you say 'English', you actually mean 'white'.



To clarify, you're saying it's an out and out FACT that, in London, English people are a 'serious minority' and the only white people you come across are Eastern European. Really?









If it is a FACT, presumably you have some evidence to back it up. Who are 'we'? White people? English people? I think you'll find that both are in the overwhelming majority.



I lived in London for a year, and I don't recognise the place you are talking about.

Well, yes, when you take that negative view and apply it to more than just the one 'foreign national' in question, based purely on them being the same nationality. That's pretty much a text-book definition of racism based on nationality.



That's exactly what you're doing. And it's not just limited to numbers either.

So, London just keeps filling up with all them there immingrunts?

1939 8,615,245 (Greater London) - population's peak
1951 8,196,978 (Greater London)
1961 7,992,616 (Greater London)
1971 7,452,520 (Greater London)
1981 6,805,000 (Greater London - midyear est)
1991 6,829,300 (Greater London - midyear est)
2001 7,322,400 (Greater London - midyear est)
2002 7,361,600 (Greater London - midyear est)
2003 7,364,100 (Greater London - midyear est)
2004 7,389,100 (Greater London - midyear est)
2005 7,456,100 (Greater London - midyear est)
2006 7,512,400 (Greater London - midyear est)

It's actually 1 million less than before WW2

Why do some people continually seek to play the race card??

Especially when they should be playing the xenophobia one



I think there are too many do gooders in this country. Black, white, asian whatever. People are so quick to try and be considered politically correct they lose sight of what is right, wrong or sensible.

You've summed cod'ead up there perfectly

I'd say on this thread there has been a lot said from both sides. Both for and against immigration as a whole. Some with reasoned debate and sensible facts being put over ( I'd say Kosh here on the 'for' point of view. I've actually taken some of what he's said on board).
Then there's the blind ' I won't accept anything no matter how much evidence is put forward'.

Sorry Cod 'ed but all you've done is resort to standing in the corner with your fingers in your ears shouting 'Lalalala Racist Lalala I'm not listening!'

Oh and calling people idiots rtc... because they don't agree with you.
I can well believe you're a ref as you seem to believe you're always right and can't accept input from others you don't agree with.

In fact... you are Steve Ganson and you owe me £5

If you read further up the thread, I've said as much myself. However, this did start as a discussion about the BNP and their policies so it's hardly surprising that racism has been central to it.

And I still maintain that you can't vote for or support the BNP without tacitly supporting racism. Their immigration policy amounts to nothing less than ethnic cleansing without the guns. If you want to register a protest vote against the main parties there are plenty of non-racist options to vote for so there really is no excuse.

Indeed, this thread has actually split.

1) Are the BNP racist, YES
2) Do we need a more agressive, but balanced and fair approach to economic migration, immigration and asylum based on the actual needs of our country, and the inherent skills gaps that exist, YES


The BNP will not meet the second requirement, few political parties will as it's a complex issue, and politicians don't do complex.

I mean, what do the Bank of Engalnd do about a shortage of cash.....PRINT MORE. A four year old could have come up with that.

Typically because of the way they define the problem and the solutions they suggest. When someone starts sounding like a BNP pamphlet, intentionally or otherwise, it's going to draw an anti-racist response.

The huge failing of all the main parties has been their reluctance and/or inability to promote a sensible discussion about immigration and clearly lay out the facts. As a result there is a lot of misinformation about that only serves to cause tension and feed the cause of scumbags like the BNP.

However, that doesn't excuse people jumping on the BNP bandwagon when it's clear as day that they are simply racists.

And there are also many who are so paranoid about 'political correctness' that they automatically dismiss certain arguments by lazily applying the term.

Some of the principles now being dismissed as PC nonsense have been central to this country for a hundred years or more. Principles that two World Wars were fought to maintain. Throwing them away would fundamentally change this country and, IMO, make it a place to be a lot less proud of.