Yesterday is probably why Lawler wants to leave Rovers, he wants to play in big games for a club like Hull or Cas he could have easily sat in a comfort zone earning good money for Rovers, but he is probably fed up with winning the odd game and celebrating gallant loses.

It may very well be part of it.

The flawed thinking that has gripped the club about losing now to win later has probably been more disheartening than the losing itself at times.

This, from Moneyball, resonated with me.

[iOf course, no one in pro sports ever admits to quitting. But it was perfectly possible to abandon all hope of winning and at the same time show up every day for work to collect a paycheck. Professional sports had a word for this: “rebuilding”. That’s what half a dozen big league teams did more or less all the time. The Kansas City Royals had been rebuilding for the last four or five years. Bud Selig’s Brewers had been taking a dive for at least a decade.[/i

There are differences between MLB and SL, and I’m not suggesting individuals have behaved unprofessionally or didn’t try. But a malaise set in at an organisational level. Patience (aka acceptance of losing) is definitely a virtue that can be taken to far, even for club with limited resources.

I [ithink[/i the leadership at Rovers might now be awake to this. But if not, stuff like this will highlight it.

Or maybe his partner has just got a good job in Manchester or something.

A good summary and the ‘Moneyball’ book and film do challenge the traditional approach to running sports teams.

I agree too many clubs sack a manager or have a takeover and then commence a project or process to take their club ‘back where they belong.’ If all were successful in football, they’d be about 50 teams in the Premier League. No club has a given right to be anywhere other than their current league position.

Along with recruitment, the role of the Coach is also pivotal and can make such a difference. It’s still early days with Brett, but he’s only made one signing (Grub), but we are already seeing a material change in our attitude, work rate and defence.
Previously, we had Brian Smith transform an indifferent Hull side and turn players like Andy Dannatt and Paul Eastwood from average club players into Internationals. So sometimes it is buying the right player, but also getting players to apply themselves correctly.

With Rovers, they seem to have changed approach several times under NH. They created a good team under Justin Morgan, but have just drifted since. Their squad strategy changed, they had some quality players, then went for less quality but more strength in depth and said they are now aiming to go for a smaller squad with more quality. They’ve also become a plucky loser team. One short kick off last season on Sky propelled them to innovators with an expansive game, which ultimately ended in defeat.

With regards Watson, it will be interesting to see how he goes at Huddersfield . They are showing signs of imprioving, they ran Saints close the other night. However, he has openly stated that they are on a ‘process journey’. This will result in either him being an astute appointment, or a failed 2-3 year tenure, only to be replaced with another transition period.

Yep, not everyone can succeed, but everyone can aspire. What has been hard for me sometimes is to remember that Neil Hudgell, Jamie Peacock and I imagine Bud Selig did aspire to success. They genuinely believed in their patient rebuilds, and didn’t anticipate the extent to which others would say it was worthy and the right thing to do and want no part of it themselves.



True enough. Over 15+ years you’re bound to see changes in approach and given limited resources the club has to prioritise rather than being strong across the board. But I think there’s been a tendency (in the past, rather than now hopefully) to decide what ‘we’ want the solution to be and work backwards from that, rather than rationally analysing where value could be found. Neil Hudgell grew tired with it a while ago and although I’m sure Mike Smith was a competent, hard-working administrator and fine servant to the club but he wasn’t the strategic vision guy. Hopefully, from my perspective, Paul Lakin and Tony Smith can change perceptions of the club, including that plucky loser opponent tag. Or at very least try in a way I can believe might work.

Thought I read Satae OOC somewhere - is that right?

Quote ="Mrs Barista"Thought I read Satae OOC somewhere - is that right? '" We've got an option for another year. viewtopic.php?f=34&t=608437&p=19118218#p18928894

Quote ="Mrs Barista"Thought I read Satae OOC somewhere - is that right? '" We've got an option for another year. viewtopic.php?f=34&t=608437&p=19118218#p18928894

Looks happy and settled to me as does Ligi Sao so i dont think there will be a problem with these two been with us next season

I don't think we can be over confident. Forwards in short supply so market might be competitive as Lawler is finding with 4 clubs in for him.

Whilst nothing is ever certain until contracts are signed (even then not always the case) I think Bonaire makes a very valid point about both Sao & Satae looking happy and enjoying the game. The togetherness and team spirit that certainly seems very evident under BH can not be underestimated and it’s something that they seem to hold in high regard.

I also believe as a club we are moving forward and that they would very much want to continue to be a part of that.

I fully agree, but we also don't know what other factors are in play eg family situations, cap headroom, financial budgets, competitive interest etc. Would be arrogant to assume it's a slam dunk IMO.

I don’t think anyone has been arrogant or assumed it’s a slam dunk.

I think it’s fair to view the positive aspects or plus points. There will always be the issues you reference but in some ways these can be lessened to a degree by the family/team environment within a club.

As I say a lot in the Diary it would be nice to know where we are on contracts because all we get is 'The daily Mail believes ...' stories and we really don't know where we are on such things. I understand it can be confidential and sensitive but its confusing when the media tell you something which the club never seem to confirm. It was the same last season and although players continued to play for us into this season we were never really found out if some had signed or not.

... I can't think of any, who's playing without the club confirming their contract status?

Quote ="Chris71"I don’t think anyone has been arrogant or assumed it’s a slam dunk. I think it’s fair to view the positive aspects or plus points. There will always be the issues you reference but in some ways these can be lessened to a degree by the family/team environment within a club.'" I agree, team spirit seems very good at the moment, but in addition to points already made we have lots of players OOC and Hodgson has only made one signing so far, so complex moving parts. Assuming we retain with "no problem" is a stretch IMO. This is the list of OOCs according to seriousaboutrl.com https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/every-pl ... lub-38516/ Jack Brown Joe Cator Jake Connor Bureta Faraimo Brad Fash Josh Griffin (reportedly signed new deal) Masi Matongo Manu Ma’u Ligi Sao Chris Satae Andre Savelio Adam Swift Mitieli Vulikijapani Connor Wynne

Quote ="Chris71"I don’t think anyone has been arrogant or assumed it’s a slam dunk. I think it’s fair to view the positive aspects or plus points. There will always be the issues you reference but in some ways these can be lessened to a degree by the family/team environment within a club.'" I agree, team spirit seems very good at the moment, but in addition to points already made we have lots of players OOC and Hodgson has only made one signing so far, so complex moving parts. Assuming we retain with "no problem" is a stretch IMO. This is the list of OOCs according to seriousaboutrl.com https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/every-pl ... lub-38516/ Jack Brown Joe Cator Jake Connor Bureta Faraimo Brad Fash Josh Griffin (reportedly signed new deal) Masi Matongo Manu Ma’u Ligi Sao Chris Satae Andre Savelio Adam Swift Mitieli Vulikijapani Connor Wynne

I keep hoping we've done some deals and are waiting for the right PR time to announce. Like after being dumped out of the cup by 2nd faves Wigan for example. Oh, hang on

Looking at the ooc list there seems to be pretty slim pickings, I'd maybe have a look at one of the senior twins to add some depth to the backs but doesn't seem to be much in the way of props, I'd maybe take a punt on Pauli Pauli if we could get him firing he'd be absolutely devastating on the edges or through the middle.

Thought he was great this weekend.

If you’d said Pauli Pauli when he was at Wakefield I’d disagree but since he moved to Salford he’s been a better player, so I agree he’d be worth a punt. I think that the coaches we have and the ethos they have brought to the club they would be able to get more out of him too.

I think he could be a good fit especially if he buys into what Hodgson is trying to do. He sometimes comes across as a little lazy but his sheer size causes so many problems.

I agree he's become a better player since moving to Salford.

Haven't read any apart from the 1st page

Lawler isn't better than what we've got in fact he's worse than players like savielo

Need to be looking to upgrade not downgrade

Quote ="Mrs Barista"I agree, team spirit seems very good at the moment, but in addition to points already made we have lots of players OOC and Hodgson has only made one signing so far, so complex moving parts. Assuming we retain with "no problem" is a stretch IMO. This is the list of OOCs according to seriousaboutrl.com https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/every-pl ... lub-38516/ Jack Brown Joe Cator Jake Connor Bureta Faraimo Brad Fash Josh Griffin (reportedly signed new deal) Masi Matongo Manu Ma’u Ligi Sao Chris Satae Andre Savelio Adam Swift Mitieli Vulikijapani Connor Wynne'" For me the only ones I would not renew is Masi and I can't see Faraimo staying.

Quote ="Mrs Barista"I agree, team spirit seems very good at the moment, but in addition to points already made we have lots of players OOC and Hodgson has only made one signing so far, so complex moving parts. Assuming we retain with "no problem" is a stretch IMO. This is the list of OOCs according to seriousaboutrl.com https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/every-pl ... lub-38516/ Jack Brown Joe Cator Jake Connor Bureta Faraimo Brad Fash Josh Griffin (reportedly signed new deal) Masi Matongo Manu Ma’u Ligi Sao Chris Satae Andre Savelio Adam Swift Mitieli Vulikijapani Connor Wynne'" For me the only ones I would not renew is Masi and I can't see Faraimo staying.

Agreed, Mitch will be a hard decision as we might not see him play. Could really do with him getting some lower league RL experience on loan somewhere

Won’t be lawler ; he’s going to Wigan .

Been a nosey on the Wigan FC cup thread over on the Wigan board, and noticed a lot of there fans bemoaning their forwards, a couple mentioned one of their youngsters called Ben Kilner saying how he should of been in the squad and given a chance as apparently he's a very good prospect. Turns out he's left for a full time job I'm assuming lack of reserve grade has forced his hand. Could be a clever option for us. Looks a big unit 6ft5 and 17st https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Kil ... gby_league)

Been a nosey on the Wigan FC cup thread over on the Wigan board, and noticed a lot of there fans bemoaning their forwards, a couple mentioned one of their youngsters called Ben Kilner saying how he should of been in the squad and given a chance as apparently he's a very good prospect. Turns out he's left for a full time job I'm assuming lack of reserve grade has forced his hand. Could be a clever option for us. Looks a big unit 6ft5 and 17st https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Kil ... gby_league)

Quote ="Rocknrolla69er"Been a nosey lover on the Wigan FC cup thread over on the Wigan board, and noticed a lot of there fans bemoaning their forwards, a couple mentioned one of their youngsters called Ben Kilner saying how he should of been in the squad and given a chance as apparently he's a very good prospect. Turns out he's left for a full time job I'm assuming lack of reserve grade has forced his hand. Could be a clever option for us. Looks a big unit 6ft5 and 17st https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Kil ... gby_league)'" Single game for Wigan when they got beat 42-0 by Saints, then four loan games for Rochdale all of which they lost. If Wigan are picking the likes of Byrne and Shorrocks over him maybe he’s best left to his new career.

Quote ="Rocknrolla69er"Been a nosey lover on the Wigan FC cup thread over on the Wigan board, and noticed a lot of there fans bemoaning their forwards, a couple mentioned one of their youngsters called Ben Kilner saying how he should of been in the squad and given a chance as apparently he's a very good prospect. Turns out he's left for a full time job I'm assuming lack of reserve grade has forced his hand. Could be a clever option for us. Looks a big unit 6ft5 and 17st https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Kil ... gby_league)'" Single game for Wigan when they got beat 42-0 by Saints, then four loan games for Rochdale all of which they lost. If Wigan are picking the likes of Byrne and Shorrocks over him maybe he’s best left to his new career.