Think its time now that Tinkering Tony move Tuimavave into the second row.
Masterstroke for Smith if it comes off and Its likely to be his last season here so nothing to lose

Not even a win ? Staverly? Martin try ? Loan duo ? Ashworth continued displays ? Walker overall performance? .

There were some good individual performances.
I'm particularly pleased about Staveley and Martin's performances yesterday, they look like they could make the grade for SL.

But unfortunately aside from good individual performances it again was not a good team performance.

I'll take losing if we play well but yesterday just felt like a hollow victory. Even the sight of 2 points in our league position didn't fully dispel how poor an afternoon it was for us, struggling to beat a newly promoted Championship level team.

I'll take the win but I need to see an improvement in all facets of our play and a massive improvement in our discipline.

and we were getting on so well
I am looking for the positves in our play like structure,fluent attack and dogged defence and i see nada.
I also have to question leaving a player on the bench.Whats the point? That surely has to be a coaching error including him in the first place given he left Hoy and Balmforth out.
You know my thoughts on Walker as i advocated on here we should sign him when he became available and Ashworth has surpassed my expectations but to laud and suggest we sign the recent loan duo as one or two are suggesting is crazy and will make little difference to where we are likely to finish in the League this season.
the young players Stavely and Martin deserve to keep their places in the team

Id brought up the bit about sao shouldnt of been given the ball there, i cant bag morgan smith too much as he gives his all, unfortunatley hes not the level of organising halfback we need. HUge drop off in level from Clifford.

Its been scattergun recruitment on a poor budget, so weve make does and square pegs in round holes.

Next seasons massive for recruitment , il keep saying it no covid handcuffs, big income from sponsers, corperate, merchandise and passes lets have it spent on marquees now

I thought he had a decent game, the ball steal near the end he was very unlucky it went against him.

Good points . We do agree on more things this year. But work in progress

Because sport is a funny old thing, weve had youngsters coming in, a shattered spine, players having brain farts and also had alot of players missing. We are also in round 3, nobody is anywhere near there best.

Im not saying the situation is ideal but I struggle to see how so many of you cant see it. How can you employ one of the competitions most successful coaches and give him a shoestring budget. Hes had to sign players nobody else wants. If he had his way im sure the recruitment would be miles better but he has such a small budget to work with.

I get people may think his time is up and he may not have what it takes to win a grand final again. But for people to suggest he doesnt know how to teach the basic fundamentals of the game with his track record is completely barmy.

So far we've given away the most penalties of any team, the most red cards, third highest missed tackles and third highest errors in the competition, that to me shows a team that isn't picking up the basic fundamentals of the game

Or is it down to the players being unfit, lazy and/or dumb?

Maybe, I know stats can be manipulated to suit a point of view but those are pretty damning stats to argue against.
At the end of the day the buck stops with the coach for failings, if players are lazy or unfit then that’s on the coaching team for failing to prepare them over the pre season.

Even taking in to all the hurdles and obstacles you’d have expected a Coach of Smiths experience would have made more of an impact in the basic aspects, discipline and structures and being honest it’s difficult to see much change since Hodgson. You don’t have to have a team of quality players for them to do basics such as line speed which we still seem to have trouble with getting past pedestrian.

We all know and accept we are.where we are but that doesn’t mean things shouldn’t be questioned when nothing seems to be changing on the field which isn’t affected by budget and quality of dquad.

Must be something in the air as "The Donald" thought Biden was Obama yesterday.

I don't think Tony is there yet.

I agree.

I think it should also be remembered that one team was playing yesterday with an enormous amount of pressure on them and having to win. Expected to win! This despite confidence being low?

The other team had no pressure at all and a freedom to try things and hope they come off.

One senior player said to me last season that the atmosphere at home games can get quite “toxic” when things are not going right and it affects players.

Now I’m in no way happy with how we played but think the pressure plus the many factors which seem to be going against us at the moment (injuries, suspensions, bounce of the ball etc) contributed to the overall performance?

I think that's a lame excuse. When the player said "things are not going right" is the fans response after the players have thrown the towel in early after capitulating. Ellis mentioned it in his book. I can except defeat because we are not good enough but not through lack of effort.

I never boo the team because it's counter productive but I can understand why some other fans do after some of the dross we have served up in recent years.

Kept up my 100% tipping record for the season on Hull FC matches. For me a minor miracle!

I will hazard a guess that your 100% record will be intact after the Catalan game!

I agree with Lane’s pass. Tidy and effective.

He cant do anything about the players being dumb but Smith surely as the top coach that people say he is then he should be getting the players super fit and weeding out anyone who is lazy

Having an actual S@C coach would help with this. What does Jason Davidson actually do and Tom Bennett who is the head of conditioning and as far as i know isn't a qualified S@C coach.
More cost cutting?

Tend to agree with all of that. It’s a lazy solution to always just get another coach. He has to work with the squad he can cobble together. We are all observing -often unkindly, the slow art of improving the players individually and collectively. Yesterday I saw lots of positives, quite a few if onlys and I enjoyed the contest. Even Jordan Lane was ok. I’m not blind to the shortcomings though. We should aim for mid table then kick on. Think a good moan is cathartic for many and forums such as these are a good vehicle given our current status at Hull FC

Ok so if we think some players are unfit. Which ones after watching the first 3 matches do we think are ?

I'm not so sure on if our players are unfit, I had heard during pre season that players stats where much higher on the season previous (even those who had come from other clubs). What I would say however is that there is a couple points to notice:

1) - Our use of the bench, we played pretty much with 15 men on Sunday (no offence to Charles) and towards the end of the game it showed. Sloppy errors in both attack and defence crept into our game particularly from our forwards. This has been a common theme at Hull for a while, I cant recall another team leaving 1-2 players unused on the bench. Ligi Sao, for as much stick as he cops, goes regularly through 80 minutes of graft and never shy's away from carrying the ball in. His efforts are huge but its no coincidence to me that a lot of his errors come in the final thirds of a game.

2) - Following from the above, the sloppy errors lead to having to make more tackles, as mentioned we have the top tackler in the league in Lane, it has never been a positive stat for me. More defending = More fatigue.

I wouldn't say our players are unfit, I would say we need to be smarter to help preserving the players energy levels.

I believe it's the first time Tony Smith has left an unused sub on the bench for Hull FC.

Brett Hodgson did it FIVE times in 2021 and three times in 2022. Aiden Burrell was unused once in each season. He left Ben McNamara on the bench at Magic in 2021.

Its baffling selections and square pegs in round holes , even with injurys and bans

To me I dont see that as all the coach, the players have to own them mistakes. I hardly doubt these are problems that are being ignored and in some regards problems that existed long before Smith.

I do feel like the negetivity in the stands doesnt help, we are entitled to our opinion and they have to react better to it. I cant help but feel they is massive confidence issues where players are too scared to do something different or outragous incase it doesnt come off. Its a theory I have but momentum and confidence is a big thing in our sport.

I didnt expect this season to be great, if we can see slow improvements and some youngsters coming in then we have the base to move forward. What isnt needed is paying every man and his dog off and throwing new players at it. With no relegation for us I kinda see it as an opportunity to grow some youngsters and hit the market next year with no covid loans to repay. If we are still in this boat next season then id say Smith has nowhere to hide, for now im happy to go along with it.