Shame the final had to be decided on such a controversial passage of play. First the alleged playing at the ball when it was kicked and another set of 6 was awarded. To me it seemed as though the player turned his back on the ball and the ball played him rather than vice versa.
Then the offside decision, from every angle i saw it looked offside.

Saints made too many silly mistakes and were the masters of their own downfall

So - checked the rules and can't find a direct reference to a player having to be "behind" "the ball" in general play. I found a reference to "both feet" being "behind", and a reference to defending players not advancing in front of the ball at kick-offs and 20m restarts. I found it difficult to cross-refer so I might have missed something. Anyone help with a more straightforward wording in the rules somewhere?
OFF SIDE as applied to a player means that he is temporarily out of play and may be penalised if he joins in the game (see Section 14.)
KICK means imparting motion to the ball with any part of the leg (except the heel) from knee to toe inclusive.
BEHIND when applied to a player means, unless otherwise stated, that both feet are behind the position in question. Similarly “in front” implies “with both feet”. When applied to a position on the field of play, “behind” means nearer to one’s own goal line than the point in question. Similarly “in front of” means nearer to one’s opponents’ goal line.
OUT OF PLAY: 10. (h) Any player who is in front of the kicker in play-the-ball general play is not permitted to advance beyond the point of the play-the-ball until the ball has gone past the off side player.
SECTION 8 - THE KICK OFF AND DROP-OUT
The ball may be kicked in any manner and in any direction and is immediately in play. Opposing players shall retire ten metres from the 20m line and shall not advance until the ball has been kicked. Defending players shall not advance in front of the ball before it is kicked. Any deliberate offence by either team shall incur a penalty to be awarded at the centre of the 20m line.

Correct. In all my years watching and playing rugby, I have never heard the question asked "is the runner behind the ball" in relation to being off side it is simply a question of staying behind the kicker. It seems that Mr Bentham may have invented a new interpratation of this rule.

, the problem is though, I am not surprised.

Worst camera work i have seen for a final.Kept going to the camera in the sky for no apparent reason.Tried to copy the Aussie grand final presentation but i am afraid it didn't work.And why does Phil Clark have to babble on and on,all we want from him is common sense summaries.

The camera in the sky was shocking as some of its vision was constantly blocked by the roof structure.

As for Phil Clarke, I actually like the guy and value his contribution and knowlege, but where he let's himself down is when he tries to copy the Aussie presentation. He tries desprately to be a UK version of Gus Gould, but ends up making himself look stupid.

Couldn't agree more. I almost turned over due to the camera work. AWFUL. That plus Barry and Terry after every try on camera giving pointless analysis.
Sky boobed for me last night. Eastmonds try would have looked so much better with the usual camera angle and not the moving camera from the back of the stand.

As for the vid decision at the end, with the exception of Bentham and Bighead it has made the RL look stupid. Is it any wonder that Soccer do not want video ref when we can't get simple decisions correct. It has happened far too often this season and I am starting to question the honesty of the sport.

For me Smiths try was spot on and the VR got it right

that sky track camera angle is crap just like it was last year. i find it hard to tell where on the field they are when they use that shot, i remember in the past james graham scoring and not having a clue how close hewas until he was going under the posts. the blimp shot was used far too often as well.

and while i'm at it... why did they keep showing mcdermott from an angle that showed the thousands of empty seats in the away end? no other sport would allow that when the majority of the rest of the stadiums pretty full

and the ball was kicked by mcguires foot, part of one of smiths team members

Well i enjoyed my day out!

Does that mean Rob Burrow's nose was offside for the whole match?

This was best demonstrated by Smith's 'try'. They'd been going to the helicopter shot all night for no apparent reason, then, the one time they need the frigging thing to see if Smith is offside, the view is obscured by the roof.

That's you, Bighead and some of the Rhinos fans, then

Think you know as much about the game as Bentham.....you his offspring by any chance?? He was at least a yard in front of the lkicker and should not have been a try, and wouldn't have been if any one other than Benham was VR. No wonder game is sinking down the attendances....the kids play better rugby on school playing fields than was on show by Leeds last night. As for Sinfield, the day he receives a pass that isn't forward, I'll buy his next Ebay item!!!!!!....grannyfan Cindy

Aye, but remember Hutchie had been collecting all his overdue pints from you all since 8am so by the time Bentham gave the try he was as drunk as VR too!!!!! See you at forum and pay you my pint then hutch....granny

I liked the moving side cam ,The heli cam was gash . Sky = overkill.

Were talking about his second try, not his first

I'll just post this again. Does anyone know where the off-side rule at a kick is clearly outlined?

So - checked the rules and can't find a direct reference to a player having to be "behind" "the ball" in general play. I found a reference to "both feet" being "behind", and a reference to defending players not advancing in front of the ball at kick-offs and 20m restarts. I found it difficult to cross-refer so I might have missed something. Anyone help with a more straightforward wording in the rules somewhere?
OFF SIDE as applied to a player means that he is temporarily out of play and may be penalised if he joins in the game (see Section 14.)
KICK means imparting motion to the ball with any part of the leg (except the heel) from knee to toe inclusive.
BEHIND when applied to a player means, unless otherwise stated, that both feet are behind the position in question. Similarly “in front” implies “with both feet”. When applied to a position on the field of play, “behind” means nearer to one’s own goal line than the point in question. Similarly “in front of” means nearer to one’s opponents’ goal line.
OUT OF PLAY: 10. (h) Any player who is in front of the kicker in play-the-ball general play is not permitted to advance beyond the point of the play-the-ball until the ball has gone past the off side player.
SECTION 8 - THE KICK OFF AND DROP-OUT
The ball may be kicked in any manner and in any direction and is immediately in play. Opposing players shall retire ten metres from the 20m line and shall not advance until the ball has been kicked. Defending players shall not advance in front of the ball before it is kicked. Any deliberate offence by either team shall incur a penalty to be awarded at the centre of the 20m line.

cant wait for next weeks 'ask stuart'

We where sat in line with that kick when Smith "scored" being amongst loads of Leeds supporters they went up as one. I looked at some Cas supporters nearby and we both said as one "offside" and it was. You can argue until next years grand final and the score will stand and crap does happen but that was just robbery. The game had everything in it, defences where on top and it took an odd lapse in concentration to allow teams to score. Francis Meli made a couple that cost them IHMO the match, that tap out just before the break that Leeds scored off, was a killer.

The atmosphere last night was good, the Leeds fans did keep that going I only heard the Saints fans a couple of times, but again I was closer to the Rhino herd. Good selection of fans last night and I did not see any aggro to speak of, just fans mingling together and having a good time. The crowd was down a little , there is a recession on remember and just going with a family to Old Trafford don't come cheap. I thought the crowd held up well all things considering and this is the third time these two teams have staged the final waltz of the season. Some fans are getting tired of going, indeed Saints have been there four years on the trot it must get a tad too much.


Oh they should be so lucky

As they say; if you believe that..............................

you're not suggesting he's not being totaly honest are you?

Best team won even though the VR decision at the end was a bad one. Best game I have seen all season, thought it was a cracking game to round off an average season for SL.

I

Of course not Neil, just as I wasn't when suggesting emotion got the better of him (all that extra cash they miss out on!!).....and up to the cock up by Bentham I agree, it was the best game of the season we've seen this year as Paul says.............grannyfan Cindy

Best grand final forra few seasons imo, i was in the leeds end and thought atmosphere was good, had a decent laugh with the loiners that were around us even though they knew we was'nt bothered who won, video ref was a bad call but still thought best team won, like alot of rugby league fans i think the prestige stakes should be league first, cc cup second and play off final third, not the other way round as it is in todays game but albeit its still a great achievement to win 3 premierships on the bounce.