Our youngsters did come good in 2005 and 2006. Since then our youth program has been lacking.

In all our history how many years have we been a dominant force?

Other squads are fairly settled were we've had another big year of turnovers and we still struggle to get big names further west than Leeds. Maybe 5-9th is as good as well can consistently get until we produce, and keep, genuine world class players again.

I still think we're too light up front to trouble the top four/five but I'm pleasantly surprised by Feka. I think backs wise, Talanoa/Biggs outside of Yeaman/Arundel with crooks and Lineham on the other side and Mcdonnel/Shaul behind them is as good as we've had for years. I think Talanoa will be a major coup. Did a lot of hard graft on sunday!

Rankine looks the part for me, like Cooke but with a better running game and a varied kicking game to boot. I still believe Miller will come good but until then Horne is still a class player.

Hooker wise in Houghton and Heremaia I believe we have possibly the best hooker rotation in the league.

Personally I think this season will see us finish 6-8 with the opportunity to give more game time to some of the youngsters. If we find ourselves clear of the two relegation spots and in the lower levels of the play offs I'd give time to the Tyson-Wilsons and other fringe players.

I think 2015 is a season that we could really shine, especially with Rankin, Talanoa and Shaul having another year under their belt.

still think we're a prop (quality) short to challenge the 4 but on a whole we look a little more balanced and seem to have a bit of depth across the board. 6th again.

With people pointing out that our side is better overall than last season anything less than 6th is failure.

Not if 6 others have improved more than us.

And in your opinion have the 8 who finished below us recruited better than we have, and become stronger as a squad overall?

Be an interesting league this year. Wigan are Tomkin-less, Wire have lost some experience and quality and will miss the talismanic Briers. Saints will take over both of these. I don't see Hudds being as consistent this year and god knows what Leeds will be like.
That said, I don't see us getting near these teams so another 6th place and a good cup run may be more realistic. Hopefully with a less disruptive off season we can push on in 2015.

Not having a dig but why would MM leave Wigan for Salford & why would they let him leave? Yes you are a team for the future but Wigan are the team to beat now.

Am i missing something? Not sure why you have brought up MM & Salford.

I've seen people post something on the wrong thread before but never on the wrong board, what a dick.

Kudos for the first

5-7th would be good. More attacking options would be a big plus for us and more consistency. But I don't want to start hating on our players already but Crooks needs to learn how to tackle 1 on 1. Get's shrugged off to easily and runs out the line to often.

Whilst I agree that his 1 on 1 isn't great he isn't the build required to smash people and dominate tackles. You make him bulk up and you lose the attacking threat. Yeaman is a fantastic defensive centre but makes very little off his own back in attack. If I had a choice between Yeaman and Crooks, it would be Crooks every time.

its going to 5th-8th again I reckon, but I'm happy with that if we start to play some rugby that is worth watching, play consistently and look like we're making improvements for 2015.

I'll be happy with 6th and a stronger team than we started the year with.

Top 5 as that will mean we've dropped fewer points against weaker sides below us while maintaining a similar challenge to the top 4 clubs.

I don't think it's unrealistic to hope for us the finally do some basics right, ie. a quick play of the ball, accruate passing from dummy half, support play and have the occasional dummy runner.

If we can address these I'd be happy.

I think we'll finish bottom get beat by 80 points every week and be relegated, on a serious note though we will improve on last season 4th is a very good target and the squad isn't carrying ooc at the end of the season who know they are signing for someone else. I think we will be the surprise package this season

Absolutely , our skill levels especially around the ptb and acting half let us down badly year on year. Not letting in soft tries in the 4 or 5 minutes either side of half time would be high on my list as well.

Squad IMO is better than last year, more depth, balanced and younger players getting more experienced.

With better tactics and coaching (which may or my not happened with LR) we should have a better season than last year, I have my doubts that we will improve enough to finish higher than last season though.

I agree completely. But unless he does bulk up a little to tackle 1 on 1 then were always going to have the same old problem down the right side. Great for scoring but let's in stupid tries.

Pretty much as I see it Dave . Let's strap in and enjoy the ride

I think we could shock a few people this year. A lot of people are tipping us for 9th, 10th or even lower, but we are far better than that. If Rankin turns out to be as good as I think he will be then we can make a good push for top 4 imo.

Who do you think you can frog leap out so Saints, Wigan Leeds, Warrington and Huddersfield? To finish top 4 you'd have to displace 2 of them

I don't think we necessarily will finish top 4, I just think we are good enough that we shouldn't be written off. However; Wigan have lost some key players and whilst I think they will still be up there I just don't know how they will do, the same goes for Warrington. Huddersfield had a great season but it remains to be seen if they can back it up. Leeds have great backs but very very avarage forwards, if Peacock gets injured I think their pack will get bullied off the park.