They would only use it once though but count as 2 people!! (which is physically possible)





Ive never seen anyone state that they dont. And when have we ever bothered about numbers adding up.

I dont understand here why you seem of the opinion that this scenario cant be fiddled?

Even if they could, which they can't as the SMC do the crowd figures, why would Hull fiddle the crowd up? That would cost them money.

Some major conspiracy theorists on here.

They may want to fiddle the crowd up to try to convince people that FC arent staying away?

Im generally not a conspiracy theorist but having seen the crowd for some games this year there is absolutely no way the figure released has been correct. (unless everyone has stayed on the concourse drinking which i guess is possible)

Dont FC only pay the SMC a % of people actually paying cash on the day and not a % of season passes which is pre-paid so wont actually matter. Im sure ive read that somewhere.

We share gate money for every bum on seat over roughly 7500.
So if Hull put 5k on that figure, we would need to pay for 2500 people.

And as the pass holders have already paid FC why wouldnt they absorb the cost of doing that to save face and make it look like the fans are still behind them? (i appreciate the double count of using the ticket at a later date but some people may say its worth them taking the hit?)

Three reasons:

1. The turnstiles are operated by SMC employees and are linked to a computer which produces the crowd numbers. These have to be accurate for H&S reasons. It is therefore impossible to inflate walk-up numbers. In fact I think that even pre-sold and complimentary tickets have to be put through the turnstile system to log the numbers inside the ground.

2. It makes no financial sense. Our deal with the SMC is based on bums on seats. The more bums, the more we pay. Inflating the crowd numbers means we lose substantial mounts of cash, particularly as the voucher scheme allows pass holders to roll tickets over from one game to another. We'd end up counting some pass holders multiple times over the season leading to a huge payout.

3. Tax. It will be rather difficult to explain the discrepancy between cash declared and crowd numbers to those fine folk at HMRC come the end of the tax year.

In short, I can't see one good reason to fiddle the figures and several excellent reasons not to. However, since I've used logic to arrive at these conclusions rather than just emoting all over the place I fully expect to be in a minority.

Don't know if the figure actually incudes season ticket holders, I'd assume it does.The agreement is anything over something like 110,000 over the season gets split 50/50....would cost Hull a fortune to manipulate these figures.
On the other hand if it secures big sponsorship..............

Where was this? I never saw any hotdogs

I'll throw my empty wrapper at ya when you walk past me on Friday night

Good reason below, finally bigger picture is brought to light. (using logic)

So you think that a board who apparently don't give a sh[ii[/it about the fans opinions, who are allegedly unwilling to spend money on the coaching setup, who are supposedly happy to see us sink down the table as there is no relegation, and who only care about money rolling in are perfectly happy to waste large sums of cash just to 'save face'?

OK then.

And keep other sources of income happy as detailed above.

Not ignored mate, just given less credence



on a serious note, I cannot for the life of me think of a valid reason why the crowds would be artificially inflated

And which large sponsorship is currently up for negotiation?

How do we get around the tax implications?

Are the SMC part of this conspiracy to defraud? Because that's what it would be - fraud. Against the HMRC and against any sponsor that they convinced to sign up on the back of falsified crowd numbers.

It makes no sense whatsoever. None. At all.

When Woolworths were going under they still spent millions on advertising, point of sale etc etc, paying the SMC a small fortune for escalated figures is no different really. Glorify our rather poor product with exaggerating sales enticing greater sponsorship.

Doubt it very much like but is totally plausible.

It may make sense to someone, maybe someone within the club that sees that bigger picture. Whether you like it or not or whether you say our systems are fool proof etc these kind of things can and do happen. It would be naive to suggest they dont.

And thats where im coming from. Im not saying they are doing it, im saying there is a possibility that they could, and there would be a limited logic for doing it too. Just trying to remove the blinkers from some.

No system is completely foolproof. However, the system at the KC would take some effort, nous, and cash to circumvent. Three things that our board are lacking.

You also haven't explained how we'd get around the legal implications.

Plus the figures don't add up. For the particular game in question, if we counted all 9,000 season pass holders that would mean that away fans, walk-ups, complimentary tickets and corporates totalled just 3,000 people.

Doesn't seem too likely, does it?

I'm a big fan of Occam's Razor in situations like this. Far more likely that the notorious unreliability of fan estimates of crowd numbers is at work.

FFS. I honestly thought you were better than that - smiley or no smiley.

You just seemed unwilling to accept that it may happen, im willing to accept that it may not. Isnt that blinkered?

Who legally enforces anything here? Are they audited? Does someone count true figures of fans in the stadium vs submitted figures?

Yes its more likely that fans estimates are wrong, however its also an option that they arent.

I'm unwilling to accept that it has happened or is happening since there is no evidence for it nor logical reason for it. In fact there is evidence, detailed above, to suggest that it isn't and hasn't. That's not blinkers, that's logic and common sense.

Hypothetically it could be done. And hypothetically someone could be stupid enough to think that it might be a good idea. That's not what was originally being argued, however. A few posts ago you said that it [iwas[/i happening. Which is the point I'm arguing.

If you want to start talking extremely unlikely hypothetical situations there's probably a thread on the Sin Bin about faked moon landings or some such.

Is Agar or Rule involved in that too. Its bound to be fake then.

Can see no more than 200 from our lot this week, with no trains running back from Hull to Manchester a lot of people will decide against it. Our lot get the train to every away, but have had to find lifts of different people now just to get home from the game.

what time is the last train?