Westerman is one of the biggest wastes of money we have done.

Hitting them with the arm being worse than the shoulder isn't self explanatory. Maybe you can't?
He'll get banned because he made contact with the head, no doubt. But hitting him with his bicep isn't as bad as the shoulder.

What about the hit on Mossop?

Another one that doesn't understand Westerman's role in the team, most likely.

What a load of rubbish.

If your going into a tackle with a shoulder charge your expecting to make upper body contact however you still have a level of responsibility to keep that hit and legal. It could be mistimed and that would work in his favor as opposed to against him.

If you have a head high shot using your arm then it can be deemed you have gone with intent to injure the opposition. They should be no reason for a defender to have his arm anywhere near an opponents head or shoulder area. If they did, this is a poor tackling technique and will eventually cause injury therefore it is far worse then a mistimed shoulder charge.

Stop trying to make out like your some sort of RL guru because you really are not, you are wrong in so many threads it is unreal. Please do not try to be somebody of higher knowledge, you really are not.

I am sure Westermans role in the team is not to miss tackles, give away stupid penalties, throw out ridiculous passes in your own half. He has gone so far backwards since his debut year its astonishing. I hear this is the general vibe behind the scenes too.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Westerman leave before / at the end of his current contract.

He isn't smart enough.

Westy went to put the same hit on Lauaki as he did later on Mossop, the difference being that Lauaki lowered his body to impact on Nicklas. Westy is unable to react to that in such a short time.
If these are going to end in bans, you may as well outlaw it altogether. Next thing we'll be rucking.

You're supposed to tackle with your shoulder, is it really that hard to understand? Deary me.

Look at the GI hit from the other week. If that hit was with the shoulder, he wouldn't have been banned for as long. Same as Webb the other night, if puts his shoulder in there rather than lifting his arm then the ban isn't as severe. When have you ever been able to strike with the arm, out of interest?

Don't recall the hit on Mossop, would have to see it again.

So Westerman's the only one who misses tackles? O'Meley and Manu both missed tackles that led directly to tries. You're just another poster who likes to bag Westerman at every opportunity because we paid a fee and he's not single handedly winning us games.
Comments like 'the biggest waste of money ever' just make you look more stupid than I ever could.

As with the Moa incident, it is his responsibility to make sure he does not take the opponents head off. Even if the opposition player has lowered the body.

You're massively overplaying Lauaki's role in this. How many players in RL run in with a straight back? As a defender, you know full well the opposition are likely to be leaning forward. You then alter your body position/tackling technique accordingly. It's the responsibility of the defender to ensure he doesn't go high.

He led with the shoulder, obviously. If he'd raised his arm I'd agree, but it wasn't a swinging arm. If his shoulder had made direct contact with his head it would have been far worse. It was clumsy, but I don't see how he can react to Lauaki ducking down in that time.

Do you really believe this ?

When you spend big money on a player you expect a return and we are not getting that. How many world class games has Westerman had for us whilst he has being here ? How many times has Westerman done something which has wowed us ?

He is done neither, he is going backwards. Ask Cas fans if they are bothered he left them. His stats considering he has missed half a season are embarrassing.

I'm not massively over playing Lauakis role, it's his style to duck down into the challenge, to try and knock Nicklas over. I don't see how Westerman, once committed can change body position. The difference between the tackles was Mossop didn't duck into it.
You either put it down as unfortunate or you start punishing the intent.

He led with the shoulder and missed making it careless. If he'd hit him with his shoulder it then becomes Moa/Puletua ground but closer to a legal challenge than making contact with his arm.

I'm not disputing the fact it was clumsy, I agree he didn't mean to do it but it was a tired effort to make the tackle with the correct technique which renders it careless. As I mentioned in my previous post, he has to anticipate Lauaki leaning into the tackle, that's his responsibility as the defender.

Unrealistic expectations mate, nothing more. There are worse 'value for money' players in our squad.

If lauaki bends down into westermans arm then more the fool to him. Westerman and tother week puletua along with moa had their arms to their sides and non dileberately attacked the head. Its up to the attacker not to put their head in a dangerous position. If a defender bends low to tackle and catches a knee or hip to the head then he doesnt get a penalty

Are they?

Westerman's stats per game:

tries: 0.25
meters: 65.25
tackles: 25.4
missed tackles: 1.25
penalties: 0.75
errors: 0.6
carries: 11.5
offloads: 0.8
try assists: 0
tackle busts: 1.3

Richard Whiting's:

tries: 0.2
meters: 55
tackles: 20.8
missed tackles: 1
penalties: 0.55
errors: 0.5
carries: 8.45
offloads: 0.9
try assists: 0.15
tackle busts: 0.9

Not that bad like for like I'd say.

He's not the 'biggest waste of money ever' - there are loads of players more deserving of that crown - but equally, he's not of the sort of standard we need if we are to reach the heights we aspire to. If it was possible, I'd have him replaced at the end of the season.

Westerman would find himself a place in any 17 in the league. He should, however, be played consistently as a wide 2nd rower. His try assist for Gleeson in the CP derby last year was a real 'wow' moment, and is the level he can achieve given a consistent run there.

We'll have to agree to differ on that. Maybe I "don't understand his role", but I really don't think he's any more than an average player. The odd great pass doesn't change that.

I don't get all the sudden Westy bashing, I really don't. He captained the England Knights last season FFS. He's 22!

Just like John Barnes goal against Brazil



I seem to have opened up a can of worms with this thread

We don't have another 2nd rower at the club capable of that creativity to ghost through a gap then execute the pass.

Should have been sent of IMO as his challenge was worse that pulatua(sp) and moas