... all 4 Championship teams could be promoted.

Thanks. coyh

This. We were close to scoring on a number of occasions (Michaels in touch, Rankin forward pass to Logan, Rankin offside (was he?)) and would probably have done better against other teams. Wigan were faster and made more metres than us, and if anything it was our defence that let us down.

The game was similar to the cup final. We tried a lot and it didn't work. If some of it had (as above) it would have been a closer game and we wouldn't all be so gloomy today. There were positives last night but admittedly that isn't enough.

Wigan fans seem to think we was poor last night and they was average

They're probably right, how many errors did they make? It certainly wasn't their usual clinical performance.

The difference for me last night was pace....but not how quick the individuals are, it was more the speed of their passing, the speed of their thoughr processes and the pace at which they run onto the ball.

They could get it from one side of the pitch to the other, quicker than we can. They run onto the ball at pace which is difficult to defend against. Our passing is woeful, mis-directed and slow. The amount of times players have to check their run when they get a pass off Houghton (who must have thrown around 5 or 6 passes that hit the floor last night, not even going to count the ones that went over peoples heads!) is awful.

Also - they were clever with the ball. We are daft. Michaels trying to go round Charnley with about 2 years of space. Houghton ignoring a rampaging Paea near to their line after 3 or 4 tackles were we got quick play the balls. Talanoa giving a pass to early to Lineham, as well as Lineham trying to bulldoze over Bowen. Just poor pieces of play

Listening to Adam Pearson prior to the game, I was very deflated regarding his comments on our coaching staff.

He was waxing lyrical regarding Radford, and he sees our attack coach as Richard Horne.

Horne never possessed the ability of a flat, fast bullet pass,& his kicking game was average.

Horne was a great runner, but didnt possess the above attributes to make him a regular international at HB.

Pearson thinks signing better players, will improve our situation, but in attack ,the team look devoid of any idea, and the passing technique throughout the squad is below average - IMO.

Said exactly the same last night. Horne was a runner, and when he had to organise it affected his game.

People like Sean Long, Ryan Sheridan, Danny Orr etc who are on teams coaching staff now were all organisers not off the cuff runners.

Actually Pearson didn't 'wax lyrical' about Radford at all - it was just the familiar refrain about how hard he was working and the good job he was doing behind the scenes. And for the first time I can remember he went as far as admitting that Radford might need help on the attacking side.

Also he didn't definitely say that he saw Horne as our attacking coach - just that he was an option rather than bringing someone in from outside.

I think we need a reality check here.

OK so last night we were definitely off colour but it was by no means the worst I have seen us play this season.

Wigan were bigger, stronger, faster and more skilful. They are better players and are better coached.

What we saw was the difference between a top 4 team and a top 8 team.

Wayne Bennett couldn't coach our players to a top 4 finish; we have at best a top 6 squad and it would take a better coach than Radford to get them into the top 6.

Unless something drastic happens I can see a yearly battle to get into the top 8 so we may as well get used to it.

I think our squad is far better than some think, I certainly think a good coach would challenge top 4 - is Cas squad better than ours (on paper)? Have they challenged for top 4? You could argue they have even if they don't quite make it.

Drastic? Can only be one of two things? So many good players come in that even and average coach could get them to top 4, or a new coach?

The latter option seems to be the only viable one.

I've been up and down this season over LR, guess that's part of being a fan.

But I do agree with you that, next season could well be a repeat of this of this one. Hope I'm wrong

I agree with this I believe we have a pretty decent squad and that we have finished in the 8,despite radfords coaching rather than because of it,and imo would improve with a decent coach.

Anyone who watch the 19s will tell you what a well coached team they are and play a good style of rugby.

So Maybe you are writing Horne off before he has a chance.

You don't have to be a world class half to be a top attacking coach, who is Rovers and Leeds attacking coaches and they both play a good brand of rugby?

Do you mean at this stage or after the super 8s? Because tbh, it's possibly surprising how little extra we'd need to currently be sitting in 4th.

Turn around the 1 point losses against Wire and Wigan and beat Hudds at home and we'd be 2 points clear in 4th. Throw in a home win against Rovers and we'd definitely be 4th even after Hudds and Cas results this weekend. Beat Wakey away like almost everyone else and we'd be scrapping for 3rd. There are 5 games that we'd need only 3 results from to be on the brink of if not in the top 4 right now.

I know it's all ifs and buts, but it does just show you how much fine margins could completely transform where we are, so I have to disagree that a top class coach could not get us a top 4 finish. They wouldn't guarantee it, but it would clearly be possible with just a bit more in a few games.

I think most sides in this league are capable of a top 4 finish, as has been said Cas are challenging with what on paper isn't a team of world beaters, its just well balanced and well drilled.

I think this has been one of the poorest leagues for years, Wigan are 2nd and before last night had only managed to beat Wakefield away from the DW. Saints don't look anything special, leeds look good in patches but they are an aging squad that should be on the slide but aren't. Wire have been shocking but are starting to pick up so in reality it was there for the taking yet the a rugby stronghold like Hull has produced a team scraping into the 8 and team fighting in the relegation scrap.

Anyone who's seen the sky adverts for this weeks games will have seen it brought home, It was billed as "2 of the powerhouses of RL are live this week". Don't think they were talking about either of us.

I hear what you say but I'm sure the fans of all teams can point to narrow defeats and matches they should have won.

I'm guessing that like me you have seen most of our games this season and hand on heart can you say that we have one of the 4 best teams in the league?

I'm sure a top coach would improve us (and make us a damn sight more entertaining and enjoyable to watch) but I'm not convinced he could turn this squad into top 4 finishers.

A positive from last nights game is that we actually created several good chances against a quality team. Trouble is, we has the most eagle eyed ref in years who correctly (for the most - exception was the chip over the top which Rankin collected) called play back when on another day they would have been missed.

Thats said, we looked like a team that relies too heavily on one player, who will now with out of action for 6 months.

Men against boys. Beaten by the better team etc etc

And running onto a ball instead of taking it standing still.The whole team doeas it apart from Keka occassionally

No, we are not one of the 4 best teams. We are where we deserve to be. However that wasn't the point made. IMO I think we are less than the sum of our parts, and the players we have are capable of a bit more. Probably enough in a handful more games to get a few more results and points, and maybe even enough to compete for the top four.

On paper we are probably about top 6. We all know the game's not played on paper though, and some teams are slightly overachieving, some slightly underachieving, so all I'm saying is that a top class coach could possibly do it. No guarantee's, but I wouldn't rule it out, which is what you did. It's a salary-capped sport and this year more than many has shown the importance of being the best you can possibly be, so to me it's imperative to have the coaching staff to make you one of the overachievers, possibly waving down the table at a few underachievers.

Agree 100%,lets hope he does return ok. coyh

Probably just preparing the way for Lasty to head of new academy and Richard Horne to assistant coach....just a thought!

Wigan were bigger physically, stronger and faster. We would beat Wigan one in 6 games with our full strength side out. Never got anywhere near last night.

In his pre-match Q an A session on Humberside last night, Adam Pearson said that actual numbers inside the stadium this season at times have been between 8000/8500.

Heard the same thing. Last and Pryce has an argument - with Pryce saying "what did you ever do in Rugby League" to Andy Last

So many of the problems stem from the LR mistakes/inability to coach.

1.Houghton is fooked, and whilst he's a top tackler/good scooter the rest of his game isn't brilliant & gets progressively worse as he tires not just in a game bt as the season goes on. Not using Cunningham to not only improve his game but to spell Houghton is a massive mistake, and what is going to change next season?
2. Interchange, Radford still hasn't grasped the basic concept of balancing which forwards need spelling when so as not to leave us too weak/without oomph. His tactic of filing to use one of his interchanges until too late into the game is still present as it was last season.
3. Basic skills, just everything, it's lacking everywhere on the field, individual moments of brilliance aside, Radford talks about doing everything off the field but clearly he is incapable of identifying players weaknesses and rectifying them
4. attacking structure, speaks for it self tbh, we can make plenty of metres, we seem to break tackles but when it gets to the crucial aspect we just are really poor in both inventiveness and understanding/execution...time and time again.
5. Mental attitude, that video he ran in the pre-season sure worked out a treat, he hasn't the capacity to figure out how to motivate and how to change the way the players think. That's the job of a professional, that isn't Radford.
6. Not being able to man manage
7. He can't/won't accept that he is the biggest problem at the club with regard to how we perform, he, like Pearson blame everyone/thing else. He needs to adapt and change, he needs to learn but hasn't, can't or won't, whichever it is it doesn't matter, he hasn't the capacity and never will.