Well they have more time to release players, or say they are free to talk to other clubs. FWIW, a champion player could cost us 150k a year maybe more. We might have 120k left to spend, release Obst and we may have another 40k to 50k which would be better spent on 2 players rather than 1?

I can see Moa and O'Meley leaving next season along with Martin, and who knows we may be keeping some of the salary cap back this season to put towards a player for 2013. Especially when it looks like we shouldn't be at full cap with the outgoings we've just had.

And when Moa and O'Meley leave, we need to spend their slaries on two more props ! Leaving the Martin salary for a "top" centre. Our squad is small and anyone who leaves will have to be replaced, like for like, leaving nothing left over.

And like I said perhaps we've left some of the SC over from this season to put towards a top centre next season, say 100k?
I expect Moa to leave but Ogre may fancy just one more season, who knows.

Obst will be on a fair bit more than that,more like 70-75 k,which may explain one of the reasons for wanting him to find another club.

I think too many here are being a bit harsh on Tony Martin. He's a decent player who's still produced good performances in a struggling side. Only a disappointment if you believed the Lyon / Jennings / Gasnier fairy tales.
Looks like a 1 year stop gap, either to buy another years development for one of your juniors (don't know what you've got coming through) or Gentle has his eye on a player who's OCC next season. Either way, he'll do a job for you.
The bit I can't understand is dumping Phelps to sign Martin. Looks a bizarrely sideways move imo.

we didn't dump Phelps to sign anyone, we signed McKinnon and Phelps was never going to be here beyond a year, if Martin didn't have the dispensation from the RFL because of the Crusaders shenanigans we'd not have signed him either.

Personally I don't want to see us let Obst go unless we bring someone better in, we're still light on creative players and Obst can do a job in a couple of roles.

I find that a strange statement. The only place we are not light Is in the creative positions. We have to lose Obst

you honestly believe that?

who would you have, Horne or Obst? (taking their respective wage into account)

Horne. We have also got Symour, Ellis, houghton, heremaia and niclas covering 3 positions. We can't have half the squad covering 3 positions

Houghton and Heremia are 9's, Nicklas is unproven, as is Ellis, so we've got Seymour and Horne, not eactly an embarassment of riches.

But you can only have so many players. We have only got 3 second rowers. 4 props

Ellis is unproven at this level, but still more then a capable half, as shown by his awards. How else can they get 'proven' if they don't get their chance? Lomax and Gaskgell were unproven, look were they got.


Horne, Nicklas, Ellis, Seymour. 4 Halves is good amount, and a damn sight more then we've had over recent years.

Obst is also a 9, I'd sooner go with Nicklas and Ellis as unproven potential than Obst as proven to be not good enough for where we aspire to be, and in the halves I'd also go with Horne over Obst every time.

For a poster who constantly bemoans the averageness in the squad, I have to say I'm surprised with your stance on this one.

I still think he is better than Horne, that is where I am coming from.

lets just hope now agars gone,we never see horne play scrum half again.

cunningham is back up hooker with ellis and nicklas for the half back positions. obst isn't needed as the club have already said

Nowt to do with Agar. If Long had stayed fit you wouldn't have seen him play SH for the last two seasons.

it wasnt a dig at agar and i do like horne,i just think going right back to when mcrae was here last time,succesive coaches have tried to make horne a makeshift scrum half with a kicking game and its never worked.

At 7, neither are good enough/suitable. At 6, Horne still has some question marks for me. I'm quite certain that Obst is not good enough though. He's an enthusiastic dummy half runner, no more, no less.

Plenty of options in the squad

Full back - McKinnon, Briscoe
Wing - Briscoe, Sharp, Lyne
Centre - Yeaman, Martin, Turner, Crooks
5/8 - Horne, Nicklas
Half - Seymour, Ellis
Prop - O'meley, Lynch, Moa, O'carroll, Bowden
Hooker - Heremaia, Houghton, Cunningham
Back row - Westerman, Manu, Tickle, Cunningham, Kent, Green, Pearce

Utility - Whiting, Obst

Looks pretty good to me. Another experienced back rower in there would make the pack stronger, which we will hopefully get.

So as it stands we have 4 props and 3 back rowers with 1st team experience. Doesn't sound like plenty of options to me

Snap , A couple of injuries and we will be struggling . I want to see the youngsters used but not all of them at one time .

How are they supposed to gain 1st team experience if we don't trust them to show us what they can offer?