Orchestrate?



He operates at the level of a busker, not a conductor.

lets hope if we get a new coach that he wins every single game or he'll feel the wrath of the armchair know it all's.

what coach would want a job where the fan's thrive on the negatives?

A coach that only allows the negatives to occur when he has absolutely no control, and largely provides positives?

Just a guess.....

Let's hope we get a coach that doesn't have a talented bunch of players under performing week in, week out

He already does that. Unfortunately he trains & picks a side like they're not playing in our next game

My thesaurus doesn't have parasite for employee or shareholder ???

Oh shut up you tart

Didn`t know you had to be in posession of an armchair to be a know it all,I had better nip out and buy a big one smartish.

Ignore him. We only have 2 big sofas yet I know everything

how is she a parasite?

I suppose you'd rather have Brian Tindall or rip off Wauldby in charge?

I wouldn't bother Standee, there are far too many on this forum who simply have no idea at all



The fact is that very few actually have any appreciation of what the board do. Don't get me wrong, they are not faultless, but in reality they have made only one error and that was giving Agar a contract extention.

appointing kear?
appointing sharp?
appointing agar?
not getting their best player to sign a contract?
Playing an ineligible player twice in the CC?
Failing to turn off field success into on field success?

The club owners were looking at a big financial loss before one of the biggest clubs in the game fell in their lap, together with £2 million from the RFL for closing down their unsustainable club in gateshead and moving to Hull, closely followed by being given a million quid for their ramshackle ground before being parachuted into the best stadium in the game.

kath can take what she wants out of the club for me but let's not pretend that the board are doing something outstanding is simply not true. They've been very good at marketing and growing the business but have been absolutely shocking at turning that into a successful side.

This club desperately needs some real rugby people in key positions

Flippin 'eck Jake I was happy in my ignorant world insisting they were great due to the fact we made a profit and our marketing it good..but after reading those facts which are all correct and unpleasant reading, it looks like I am changing my mind again!!

I don't see th appointment of any coach as a failing. Not acting accordingley when things are not going right is the error.

As a matter of interest, why were the appointments of Kear and Sharp mistakes? Kear won us our only trophy of note in the last 20 years whilst Sharp got us to the GF. Ultimately they fell on their sword for differnent reasons as at the time the board were not affraid to make big decisions when it was needed.

Failure to get Cooke to sign was down to Plummer, who effectively fell on his sword for that and is no longer part of our club. Plummer was CEO and had ultimate say, hardly the fault of the other directors at the time or the current ones who were not party to it all back then.

What exactly has playing an ineligable player in the CC really cost the club?

Failure to turn off field success to on field success. Isn't that down to the playing staff and coach to do that? And this is where we come full circle. The board used to make snap decisions which were probably the right ones (getting rid of Kear and Sharp - although I have a degree of sympathy for Sharp as the loss of Cooke (beyond his control ) and the worst season for injuries in many a year (beyond his control) were contributory factors). The failure of the board has been to blindly back Richard Agar when its firstly, inconsistant with treatment of other coaches and secondly, possibly more evidently, Agar simply is not good enough which has been evident from round 7 of SL in 2009. The awarding of a 2 year extention was neither justified or good business sense.

The main change in the board since Sharp departed is the promotion to CEO of James Rule, who is clearly not up to making big decisions.
Finally, you say "This club desperately needs some real rugby people in key positions". Who do you mean by this? ATEOTD We do not have a sugar daddy who is prepared to let business sense go out of the window and will under write any losses.

Unfortunately there are too many (and thias is not directed at you ) who seem to think getting Kath Hetherington out will be like someone waving a magic want and everything will be rosey. Kath is not the problem, its the CEO (who cannot make the big call) who is.

I thought Rule was CEO when Sharp was sacked?

Where have I said kath should go? We have no one on the board who has any real knowledge of or contacts in the game. it's why we've consistently failed to live up to our potential. it's why we've appointed successively worse coaches since mcrae left (kear did well to win the cup but was, as was his successor, just not up to the job of managing a big club). it's why we have underperformed in bringing young talent through. It's why we sign big name aussies on big contracts who have, on the whole, failed to live up to expectations (of course there are some exceptions). It's why we feed off the cast offs of the more successful clubs. If we had a real rugby person on board recruitment, retention and player development would be much improved.

The examples I quoted were examples of mistakes made by the board you claimed had only made one.

I'm amazed you don't see the appointment of any coach as a failing. To me, the appointment of a coach who had never worked within a top class coaching environment into the head coach position at a club with supposed top 4 aspirations, was a massive mistake and so it's proven to be. It was too much of a risk after the previous 2 failed coaches (neither of whom fell on their swords BTW).

I'm not suggesting the board should go, merely that we need someone in there making decisions who actually has the knowledge of the game required for us to be a success. None of the current ones have that.

I agree with you on rule though but he's going nowhere and even if he did his replacement wouldn't be able to make the decisions that count anyway

Bit unfair on KH, she comes from a real rugby league family and has been involved in the game all her life. I'd wager that she knows more about RL than most chairpersons in the game.

Hasn't stopped her and the board making some poor coaching decisions, I grant you.

Jake what do you mean by contacts and how do you know she hasn't got any?

I hear this all the time but have never seen any evidence of it. the current state of the club tells me it isn't correct

sorry Jake, but I have to disagree with you about Kath, she has better and wider contacts in RL, both in the UK and internationally than most people, she is definitely guilty of having poor judgement when it comes to recruiting coaches.

Crooke not signing was Plummers fault, Thacks not being registered was 50/50 between FC and the RFL (it was an admin issue afterall, once a player has taken the pitch in a game, he's pseudo registered in most people's eyes anyway, the fact he was named in the squad logged with Red Hall and they had no issue at the time tells us this is so).

Do I "like" Kath, no, she's one of the most objectionable people I have ever met, BUT she is RL through and through.

And when you say "current state" of the club, what do you mean, 3 Exiles that showed true class, one of the most promising 13's in Westerman, promising 7 in Ellis?

Agar is the one, and only, issue at Hull FC.

I mean people throughout the game who can point the club in the right direction when we're looking for players or a new coach, advocates of the club who will put a word in the right ear.

If she does have any then she really needs to start talking to them after 12 or so years at the club. The last person who we had who seemed to have these contacts was mcrae.

Other than the financial position, which is in part down to good marketing and part to the fanatical fan base who have supported the club through a very poor patch, what is better at the club now than it was in 2005? The lack of progress in playing terms is appalling

I'll defer to your knowledge on her contacts but then I'd question her ability to leverage them. We have seen absolutely no evidence that she is using these alleged contacts and in reality, the last time we saw any evidence of anyone with real knowledge of the game was mcrae.

My list of "errors" was purely in response to MMJ's claim that the only mistake the board had made was extending agar's contract. I wasn't passing judgement on them.

By current state of the club I mean the fact we haven't had a decent half back partnership since 2007, the fact that we hardly have any home grown players in our 1st choice 17, that we consistently fail to perform to the level we should.

agar is a big part of the problem and the failings may be addressed by simply replacing him with the right man, but if that man isn't then allowed a free reign on playing matters then I feel it won't get us to where we want to be.

we both know that this very board is an illustration of the problems that Hull FC face, Agar is, according to some "the best british young coach", well, he maybe is, but that is a bit like saying that Eddie The Eagle was the "best British Ski jumper", he was still crap. Radford has a testemonial for doing his job, for different employers, trousering the cash and running a successful sports shop along the way, Horne plays a handful of games at the required level and we should be keeping him for another year, as we will Dowes, those are not the actions of a successful, determined and ruthless organisation.

The problems at our club are:

AMBITION
DESIRE
ATTENTION TO DETAIL
FOCUS
DETERMINATION
PROFESSIONALISM

one look at Agar tells you he posesses none of the above, as cod'ead (and others) have said, Agar is a quality coach, but he is NOT a leader of men, not until his job is on the line, and then he has the capabilities of Captain Mainwearing.

You need to come up with a good acronym for those

DAmP FADe

DeAF DesPrAt