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to leave Gilbert out of the 6 is criminal IMO, as much as Jimmy Leuluai was talented in attack his all round game wasn't fantastic, not in comparison to this company. We only remember the good bits especially as it was our really only successful period in living memory (for the majority at least) and never the average matches were he went missing for large swathes of the game. I'd have rather had Viakona in front of him but he shouldn't be in front of Gilbert
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I agree with comments regarding Bert Gilbert. Another deserving of more consideration is the Aussie international Jim Devereau who has been mentioned in previous posts. He partnered Billy Batten in one of the finest centre combinations the club has experienced and was the first player to score 100 tries for Hull.
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There has been a lot of calls for leuluai though and with a limited choice of 6, I've gone with the original flow of the posts. My gut feeling is to include Gilbert at the expense of Barnett, but I feel dropping leuluai would be controversial. Tough choices!
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Id say burnett is the best centre weve had since the mid 80's no doubt... id say youve got to have a " modern" centre with an old one, so as a 3, its burnett and schofield or leului
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i would say batten, oliver and schofield are definately in the 6. then its down to barnett, gemmell, leuluai, gilbert with possibles for devereux and yeamo to fill the other 3 spaces. at the moment i'm going with batten, oliver, schofield, gemmell, leuluai and barnett but you have 24 hours to persuade me otherwise.
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| Quote ="berro's best mate"Id say burnett is the best centre weve had since the mid 80's no doubt... id say youve got to have a " modern" centre with an old one, so as a 3, its burnett and schofield or leului'"
One assumes you mean Barnett |
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| Quote ="berro's best mate"Id say burnett is the best centre weve had since the mid 80's no doubt... id say youve got to have a " modern" centre with an old one, so as a 3, its burnett and schofield or leului'"
As we are talking the all time greatest team then you most certainly don't have to have one from each era, that smacks of quotas rather an open selection of the best. If it is going to be 2 old timers and they have the strongest case than so be it, same with 2 modern ones and this refers to all positions. Of course the old timers are at something of a disadvantage as few or nobody is around who saw them play but there is information around about them which can help make an informed decision. I appreciate that the game has changed enormously over the years but a player of any era can only compare against their contemporaries. There are some who were clearly great in their era for an extended period at Hull and that shouldn't be neglected. I must admit I'm troubled by the shortness of Barnett's FC career compared with every other contender named. |
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Bit harsh on Kerk Yeaman I reckon.
Won the Challenge Cup
International honours with GB & England
Came through your academy
Defensively one of the best centres out there
Played over 300 times
Scored 150+ tries
SL dream team a couple of times
10+ years service at the club
Appreciate what you've got. You could have Kris Welham.
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| Quote ="Barnabus"Bit harsh on Kerk Yeaman I reckon.
Won the Challenge Cup
International honours with GB & England
Came through your academy
Defensively one of the best centres out there
Played over 300 times
Scored 150+ tries
SL dream team a couple of times
10+ years service at the club
Appreciate what you've got. You could have Kris Welham.'"
I agree, Yemo needs to be in there, you missed of 2 massive things though which push him in and also warrant a life time contract
1, Kissing his badge at Wakey the day after you all proclaimed his signing
2, Decapitating several Rovers fans in the North stand at KC, after scoring of course, when he "lobbed" the ball in there |
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| Quote ="frepneyboy"I agree, Yemo needs to be in there, you missed of 2 massive things though which push him in and also warrant a life time contract
1, Kissing his badge at Wakey the day after you all proclaimed his signing
2, Decapitating several Rovers fans in the North stand at KC, after scoring of course, when he "lobbed" the ball in there'"
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Dick Gemmell and Gary Schofield Game winners for me.
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Quote ="Barnabus"Bit harsh on Kerk Yeaman I reckon.
Won the Challenge Cup
International honours with GB & England
Came through your academy
Defensively one of the best centres out there
Played over 300 times
Scored 150+ tries
SL dream team a couple of times
10+ years service at the club
.'"
I get what you are saying BUT
One of the players left out of the 6 (Gilbert) was a dual international for Australia & played Origin, he was our captain for the 1914 CC winning team (as well as Captain for Australia after WWI) and had a great scoring rate for the time he was here and as I said previously considered to be one of the greatest rugby players not just of his era but of all time..there's a decent write up here on him en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_Gilbert
Yeaman whilst a very good centre and has certainly shown glimpses of being at the very top end just isn't the very very best.
Rep honours, sure, but not comparable to others, defensively sound but has always being prone to coming out the line and costing us despite being a big hitter and never shirked in the tackle, also he's never being that great in the air either(IMO). His passing/thought process to get his winger away has always being debateable.
When we are talking about the GOAT we are looking for players with the perfect attributes for that position that stand out not just in their own era within a club but also at international level and are considered greats through time..Yeaman isn't that man but is due ultimate respect for his loyalty to the club, ahievements and no amount of talent.
As I've said, I think to leave Gilbert out over Leuluai and/or Yeaman is a mistake if we are to judge on GREATEST not most loved/well remembered. Both those two had too many defeciencies that should eliminate them from the very very best IMO. |
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Quote ="Barnabus"Bit harsh on Kerk Yeaman I reckon.
Won the Challenge Cup
International honours with GB & England
Came through your academy
Defensively one of the best centres out there
Played over 300 times
Scored 150+ tries
SL dream team a couple of times
10+ years service at the club
.'"
I get what you are saying BUT
One of the players left out of the 6 (Gilbert) was a dual international for Australia & played Origin, he was our captain for the 1914 CC winning team (as well as Captain for Australia after WWI) and had a great scoring rate for the time he was here and as I said previously considered to be one of the greatest rugby players not just of his era but of all time..there's a decent write up here on him en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_Gilbert
Yeaman whilst a very good centre and has certainly shown glimpses of being at the very top end just isn't the very very best.
Rep honours, sure, but not comparable to others, defensively sound but has always being prone to coming out the line and costing us despite being a big hitter and never shirked in the tackle, also he's never being that great in the air either(IMO). His passing/thought process to get his winger away has always being debateable.
When we are talking about the GOAT we are looking for players with the perfect attributes for that position that stand out not just in their own era within a club but also at international level and are considered greats through time..Yeaman isn't that man but is due ultimate respect for his loyalty to the club, ahievements and no amount of talent.
As I've said, I think to leave Gilbert out over Leuluai and/or Yeaman is a mistake if we are to judge on GREATEST not most loved/well remembered. Both those two had too many defeciencies that should eliminate them from the very very best IMO. | |
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Schofield and Yeamo for me
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Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"I get what you are saying BUT
One of the players left out of the 6 (Gilbert) was a dual international for Australia & played Origin, he was our captain for the 1914 CC winning team (as well as Captain for Australia after WWI) and had a great scoring rate for the time he was here and as I said previously considered to be one of the greatest rugby players not just of his era but of all time..there's a decent write up here on him en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_Gilbert
Yeaman whilst a very good centre and has certainly shown glimpses of being at the very top end just isn't the very very best.
Rep honours, sure, but not comparable to others, defensively sound but has always being prone to coming out the line and costing us despite being a big hitter and never shirked in the tackle, also he's never being that great in the air either(IMO). His passing/thought process to get his winger away has always being debateable.
When we are talking about the GOAT we are looking for players with the perfect attributes for that position that stand out not just in their own era within a club but also at international level and are considered greats through time..Yeaman isn't that man but is due ultimate respect for his loyalty to the club, ahievements and no amount of talent.
As I've said, I think to leave Gilbert out over Leuluai and/or Yeaman is a mistake if we are to judge on GREATEST not most loved/well remembered. Both those two had too many defeciencies that should eliminate them from the very very best IMO.'"
Just to add that in the list of the best ever 100 Aus players picked in 2007 for the centenary event, Gilbert was one of 2 players that played for Hull the other being Sterling. Neither was selected in the squad of 17 that was named as the Aus 'Team of the Century' selected from those 100 best players. One player from that team did play for Rovers, however, and you all know his name?! |
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Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"I get what you are saying BUT
One of the players left out of the 6 (Gilbert) was a dual international for Australia & played Origin, he was our captain for the 1914 CC winning team (as well as Captain for Australia after WWI) and had a great scoring rate for the time he was here and as I said previously considered to be one of the greatest rugby players not just of his era but of all time..there's a decent write up here on him en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_Gilbert
Yeaman whilst a very good centre and has certainly shown glimpses of being at the very top end just isn't the very very best.
Rep honours, sure, but not comparable to others, defensively sound but has always being prone to coming out the line and costing us despite being a big hitter and never shirked in the tackle, also he's never being that great in the air either(IMO). His passing/thought process to get his winger away has always being debateable.
When we are talking about the GOAT we are looking for players with the perfect attributes for that position that stand out not just in their own era within a club but also at international level and are considered greats through time..Yeaman isn't that man but is due ultimate respect for his loyalty to the club, ahievements and no amount of talent.
As I've said, I think to leave Gilbert out over Leuluai and/or Yeaman is a mistake if we are to judge on GREATEST not most loved/well remembered. Both those two had too many defeciencies that should eliminate them from the very very best IMO.'"
Just to add that in the list of the best ever 100 Aus players picked in 2007 for the centenary event, Gilbert was one of 2 players that played for Hull the other being Sterling. Neither was selected in the squad of 17 that was named as the Aus 'Team of the Century' selected from those 100 best players. One player from that team did play for Rovers, however, and you all know his name?! | |
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| Quote ="Freddie Miller."Just to add that in the list of the best ever 100 Aus players picked in 2007 for the centenary event, Gilbert was one of 2 players that played for Hull the other being Sterling. Neither was selected in the squad of 17 that was named as the Aus 'Team of the Century' selected from those 100 best players. One player from that team did play for Rovers, however, and you all know his name?!'"
Arthur Beetson? |
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| Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"As I've said, I think to leave Gilbert out over Leuluai and/or Yeaman is a mistake if we are to judge on GREATEST not most loved/well remembered. Both those two had too many defeciencies that should eliminate them from the very very best IMO.'"
James Leuluai played 29 times for his country, a remarkable number for a player with numerous deficiencies in his game. In truth he was a very good player indeed. I agree that Gilbert deserves inclusion in the 6 nominations but not at Leuluai's expense. As it is centre is obviously historically one of Hull's strongest positions and perhaps there's a case for 8 nominations here where the number of viable candidates is stronger than for example the wingers. |
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Barnett snr and schofield for me.
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Viakona was incredible in our promotion year. Such a shame we didn't keep him for the first year in Super League.
I'd have him and Schofield in my team
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| Quote ="Erik the not red"James Leuluai played 29 times for his country, a remarkable number for a player with numerous deficiencies in his game. In truth he was a very good player indeed. I agree that Gilbert deserves inclusion in the 6 nominations but not at Leuluai's expense. As it is centre is obviously historically one of Hull's strongest positions and perhaps there's a case for 8 nominations here where the number of viable candidates is stronger than for example the wingers.'"
There is no doubt that JL was a top player, the best centre that NZ had in the late 70s/early 80s but they weren't exactly lining up with class attacking centres from NZ at that time and Jimmy was a stand out of course. That said he did have deficiencies & we are comparing the greatest of all time, just because he got 29 tests under his belt doesn't automatically qualify him as such |
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| Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"......, just because he got 29 tests under his belt doesn't automatically qualify him as such'"
but if you're Ivor Watts ........ |
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i've decided that i'll drop barnett out of the 6 and replace with gilbert. in a sense this has been the toughest position so far because of 8 outstanding candidiates going into 6. nonetheless, selecting an all time team is tough and decisions have to be made. its tough on barnett and yeaman, both outstanding players for hull, but in the company of the other 6 they come up just short.
however one poster has mentioned the possible need for more nominations in this category. whilst its not something i support because it could set a precedent for the later positions i'm willing to test opinion on having say 8 noms in this category
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schofield and gemmel for me
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| Quote ="ccs"but if you're Ivor Watts ........'"
you're point being?? |
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You go to great lengths to tell everyone Watts can't possibly be a contender because he was never selected for internationals, and then you say Leuluai shouldn't necessarily be a contender just because he represented his country.
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I'd certainly select Dick Gemmell.
I can still remember a pass he made in the tackle (50 years ago) to his winger, I think Wilf Rosenberg, but I might be mistaken.
There was a great action picture in the Sports Mail the following week.
I happened to see Dick a couple of years ago in a fish and chip shop and I mentioned the pass - he could remember it well, in fact he has the picture on his wall at home.
It was against Rovers, and the tackler was Flash Flanagan.
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