Oh yes, the reason we conceded so few penalties in 09 was because Agar had his charges so well disciplined and was in no way whatsoever to do with the fact we were a joke on the pitch and barely competitive in most of our games.


You always try to argue the pro-Agar case with me and you're rubbish at it mate. Learn from someone like East Hull FC or even Paul M, at least they know their stuff!

What are the other measures?

I'm not going to write you a list, let me ask you if you honestly think our discipline was at least as good as Wigan's over the course of last season?

If you accept that it wasn't then you accept that there's more to discipline than the penalty count stats.

Our win ratio is unacceptable - agreed
Sharp looks extremely shaky and an easy target - agreed
Washy's error to me was the turning point when we had them on the rack. A pivotal moment and stupid error that you can't afford to make against Wigan. Agree, in knee jerk/scapegoat mode, that he shouldn't be near our 17.
Not sure, however, that we would have won that game with a different coach. And given that we normally ship 47 points at Wigan, I'm relatively pleased with it.

By a strange quirk,I think if we were being hammered,most would be saying we expected it.Because we chucked a close game in the final moments,it seems to grate more.

It's not a strange quirk though, we lost a lead to 12 men and if that wasn't enough we lost it because they managed to get an overlap on us!

It takes a special coach to manage that.

A special coach who for three bloody years has not managed to show one iota of improvement to our right-side defence.

Now that does take some doing

Edited, and all that.

So he as at least one talent?

Sounds like we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Well if you put it like that

Kept flicking to teletext all game,and kept having a feeling of impending doom.

I've had a feeling of impending doom since April 1 2010

I was making an (admittedly pathetic) attempt to not be totally negative

I think there are a few things to be positive (or not totally negative about). It's just that Agar isn't one of them.

It would seem so.

Is it possible to be positively negative?

Agar seems to have mastered the art of being negatively positive

Just seen the tries on Boots N All.

Is it me but are the two tries scored by Charnley both from forward passes. If you look at O Loughlins feet ie where he passes the ball on and where Charnley catches them they look well forward.

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere i just cannot be bothered looking through 30 different threads.

About as forward as Saints equalising try at Cardiff and one of leeds tries against Salford!

Both looked forward passes to me.

You could not tell at the game but seeing the passes on tv i would say both as well.Saying that the refs let more go then they pull up.

Dan Marino would be proud of some of the passes in SL!

your not wrong, the so called momentum rule is one of the worst ever unmanageable rules brought in, the flat pass these days seems to mean a yard forward to most whistlers

There is no momentum rule. Stevo made it up.