No. Because he's pre 2008

It's not "bitter recrimination". The facts are that in 2007 we all signed up to reducing the number of overseas players and not exploiting loopholes. There is a broad spectrum of compliance with these agreed principles irrespective of changed technicalities and Rovers are the most cynical in their determination to avoid their commitment. The evidence is clear on this. Over 4 years there has been ample opportunity to deliver, but Rovers have chosen to prioritise their efforts into technical small print and dispensation seeking. I see you're back onto the "it'll be alright when Galea etc retire" passive laissez faire treadmill again, but as I predicted, you just get to a point where you believe that numbers of overseas players will actually come down and there's a real benefit to paying a fee to secure Westerman for 4 years, and Hudgell will be crawling all over any legislative loopholes he can find as law, inevitably,changes and presents new "opportunities" to avoid the agreed principles. Whilst you are rather snide about people conveniently playing the England RL card in this debate, why do you think the chairmen signed up to 5 overseas players by 2011? Oh, and

If it was agreed that there would only be 5 overseas players by 2011 does that mean all clubs with more then 5 have indeed gone back on their word regardless of how many over they are??

I take it the phrase "broad spectrum of compliance" was too complicated for you?

if you think having one extra is the same as 5 extra, you are clearly, well, a Hull KR supporter.

I'm lost

One word to sum this barrage of verbal diarrhoea !

"PARANOIA" = [i[size=85This condition manifests itself as an unwarranted tendency to interpret the actions of other people as deliberately threatening or demeaning. People with a paranoid personality disorder are suspicious of other people, and they are usually unable to acknowledge their own negative feelings towards others. [/size[/i
[uSymptoms include[/u:
Suspicion
Concern with hidden motives
Expects to be exploited by others
Inability to collaborate
Social isolation
Poor self image
Detachment
Hostility
Poor sense of humor.

It's taken me a bit of time but i've sussed it (i think

)

Once all of these pre 2008 players have retired/left we will have a simple 5 overseas (non-fed trained) players only.

Only once (maybe twice - Gene's dispensation might have applied only to him before going Kolpak/EU-wide, for about 10 minutes) have players at Rovers been subject to dispensations that were not universal throughout SL. That instance was with regard to Rhys Lovegrove, but subsequent changes have rendered it moot.

When you say 'broad spectrum of compliance', if you mean to the rules, as we now finally understand them, then the only issue for which we require mitigation is Lovegrove (in 2008 only). If you look at my 'history' on the Rovers board, you'll see Rovers have always been at or under the maximiums.
If you mean compliance to the Mrs Barista-defined spirit of the rules, then you will no doubt be quite correct.

As usual ..... IN A NUT SHELL !

Me too

It isn't verbal diarrhoea. It is quite clearly written diarrhoea.

Lovegrove is a strange one for me as, as i understand the rule, you have to COMPLETE 3 FULL seasons with the club prior to being 21 years old to be classed as 'homegrown'... Rhys did not do this and a such should be quota, but still fed trained due to pre 2008 rule!!!

from the 2009 operational rules:
[urlhttp://www.therfl.co.uk/~rflmedia/docs/Operational%20Rules%20Part%202.pdf[/url

(a) ‘Club Trained Player’: a player who has been on the Club’s register for any 3 full
Seasons before the end of the Season in which he ceases to be eligible by age
for Academy rugby league. =#FF0000For the 2008 Season only this shall be amended to 1
full Season and for the 2009 Season only this shall be amended to 2 full
Seasons. For the avoidance of doubt, where a player satisfies the definition in
each of the 2008 and 2009 Seasons and is on the Club’s register in both of those
seasons, the Player shall retain the status of ‘Club Trained Player’ in 2010 for so
long as he remains on the register of that Club but shall lose such status (unless
he satisfies the full definition of 3 years) upon being removed from the club’s
register and shall not regain it simply by returning to the Club’s register.
Otherwise, and again for the avoidance of doubt, from the 2010 Season onwards
a player must satisfy the requirement to have been on the Club’s register for 3
full Seasons before his 21st birthday in order to qualify as a ‘Club Trained Player’
and the fact that he may have qualified as a ‘Club Trained Player’ in the 2008
and/or 2009 Seasons shall be irrelevant.

So that still kind of backs up what i'm saying.

For the 2008 season Rhys Lovegrove HAD NOT completed a full season with Hull KR, hence NOT homegrown/club trained!!

At the start of the 2008 season he was still only 20 though.



Actually, I think you are right. The words 'completed' and 'full' are crucial. I assume then that his dispensation remains in place. I must apologise to Smokey.

edit - this is what NH had to say about Lovegrove in the infamous 'cabbages congregate' interview:

=#FF0000We recently received confirmation fron the RFL which states, "Rhys is classified as "Club Trained Whilst There" he will keep this classification so long as he is in continuous employment with HKR, If he joins another club he will be classed as Federation Trained. If he later rejoins HKR he will be Federation Trained."

I'm not having ago at Rovers or anything but it's odd isn't it??

As you say, the crucial points are: FULL SEASONS BEFORE HIS 21ST BIRTHDAY.... This wasn't the case with Rhys. IIRC he signed in the June/July of 2007 and was 21 March 2008.... Strange

So if you have 5 non-fed players, you're unable to sign a quota place as they count on both lists? Thus, in effect, rendering the "quota" pointless?

in general yes, but there is the possibility of finding a quota player who trained in the uk who would only count on the overseas quota (although I cant think of any of top of my head).

Yeah, he probably should only be fed-trained, rather than club-trained. I guess he must still be in receipt of a dispensation. Here is how the RFL define the circumstances under which a player may be given an exemption:

B1:15 The Board shall be given the discretion to declare that a Player qualifies as a ‘Club
Trained Player’ or a ‘Federation Trained Player’ notwithstanding that the player does not
satisfy strictly the definition where in the Board’s absolute discretion the Board is satisfied
that in all the circumstances the player satisfies the spirit of the definition and in particular
shall take into account in relation to ‘Federation Trained Player’ any time registered with a
member club of a member organisation of the relevant federation, and in relation to ‘Club
Trained Player’ time registered on loan with a member club of the relevant federation or a
member club of a member organisation of the relevant federation. The burden of
establishing such circumstances is strictly on the individual player.

Well no... He should be Non-fed trained as he hasn't been trained in the federation (England) for the correct number of years before he's 21.... He should certainly be on the quota list!!

He'd benefit from the 2008 exemptions to be fed-trained. His family are from Swindon, iirc, so I assume he is off-quota with a British passport.

Of course he wouldn't have been around to get the eventual 2008 exemption if he hadn't been given an initial dispensation... actually - no, he might because we was still under 21 and so could qualify (temporarily) based on age.
Mind bending isn't it?

Yes only the RFL would make rules about player eligibility that are so hard to understand that you need a masters in law to make hide or hair of them.

This is all confusing when Mason has been granted fed trained status.

HAs he? I was under the impression that was a typo/mis-quote.

He's either fed trained or non fed, if he's non fed then hkr are over the quota.