We needed a clearout and Agar delivered that - now he is working on getting this new structure and ethos to work. The two coaches you mention have picked up fit teams that had been performing pretty well before they arrived whereas any RL supporter worth their salt would realise that Hull's injury woes and their lack of quality would have been enough to hurt anyone team.

As quick as people are negatively judging Agar this year, they appear to be doing the same with MacGuire positively. Let's see where both teams end the season before we compare coaching success.

Sadly I think you are right

I would have agreed with that two or three months ago Chewie because he deserved his chance with HIS team but now, eight games in, we are not much better than before the clearout and yet we have a far superior squad.

However we wrap it up, there is pretty much only one thing left and only one common denominator across seasons 2008, 2009 and 2010 and we all know what that is. If we give Agar until mid-season, our 2010 "campaign" could be well and truly sunk without even the slightest chance of success.

I’ve not said you are not entitled to your opinion. We can agree to disagree that’s fine. However, rather than use reasoned debate, you seem to just throw silly remarks or irrelevant statements when an opinion doesn’t match your own. On this thread for example, when I’ve posed a question about ‘how can you sack a coach who has won every home game?’ Rather than respond to it, you just ignore it? To me that means you can’t answer the question with a reasoned argument or you gloss over it with a silly remark in attempt to belittle it and therefore dismiss it altogether? Either way you’re not giving your ‘Agar out at all costs’ opinion any credibility are you?

To answer this, no neither of those coaches recruited their own team. Peter Sharp didn’t when he took over halfway through season and took us to the grand final. Maguire, like Agar, shouldn’t be judged just yet. Wait until the end of the year. He hasn’t won anything yet. The only way Wigan can improve this year is to get to the final of each competition as they made the semi finals of both last year. He hasn’t done that yet so hold your horses with the Maguire fan club. Can I also point out he had inherited a quality squad to start with. Agar did not.

As far as Nathan Brown, when it really mattered in the CC final, all the players played badly and froze. Also in the playoffs, they only scored one try from what I remember and where poor again. So from that point of view, he also failed to sufficiently motivate his players for the big occasions, let alone Salford away in the league.

as I said previously maybe I demand more for my buck than you do tosh!!
if you believe a coach has proved his worth by winning home games yet losing to last seasons bottom two then jog on son jog on
as for silly remarks as you put it, we are all entitled to our opinion much of which does not concur with yours
happy days

I agree that's a reasonable stance to take. However were this team to build/improve in the second half of the season and finish in the top 6 Agar would have earned the right to an extension - maybe one year only - but nonetheless an extension. As I said elsewhere if we win the next 2 games it will have been a good start, win one of them and the jury would still be out. Lose both and the losses against the so called lower teams will cost him I think. It's a results based business and his destiny should and will be determined by results this year.

I think there are plans for further player movements at the end of this season and it seems to me the Board would prefer to give him two years to get things right (this being the first) however a disasterous run would likely, and rightly, change that.

With regard to the development of players there could be an issue there although unless anyone has actually been coached by Agar it would be difficult to comment with any authority (although that rarely prevents many authorities on here

). There have been a number of failures of so called up and coming youngsters in recent times although in Hull I think we are way to quick to assign the worldbeater tag to players who never will be. The treatment of Hall does concern me and I think it is time to give him a run at centre. Having said that as well as receiving good coaching the players themselves have a responsibility to work and improve, and to stop making the same mistakes each time they play. Improvement of a player is a joint effort in my view.

Next 2 games are key. I just hope the fans get behind the team and act as the 18th man otherwise what's the point in all honesty ?

Can anyone honestly put their head in the noose and state that they can honestly see Agars man management ,team selection & game plan improving at all based upon what we have seen from him during his tenure so far??

It's not about results it's about performances, and we've shown no improvement under Agar both without or with his own team!

now that is the most sensible and honest approach statement thus far today!!
well said


he a silk turd

Disagree pro sport is all about results.

Performance generally breeds results. Poor performance breeds embarrassing results vs teams like Crusaders and Salford and closer results than what should be happening vs other sides.

but you have to improve to get those results which is why we cant beat last years bottom two teams because the inconsistency of the regime promotes the wrong attitude....
Get the attitude right and we fill the trophy cabinet
apart from Radford, dowes, & Yeaman i think we have a top drawer side to move on with experience and youth coming through but all mind coached and conditions by a doughnut!!!

agree 110%
Listen we know its not a god given right to beat teams like Salford and Crusaders and god knows they both deserved their wins, but if we cant consistently do the business against those we really should class as points in the bag we have huge problems

Lets not forget the cash we laid out to bring these masters of the game to FC to make sure we didnt have results like salford or Crusaders...

I agree that when performances are better you are more likely to get the result - I don't think you would find many arguments with that. As I said in my original post if we were to finish top 6 Agar would have earnt a one year extension. To get to top 6 you would have 'bred' enough results to get enough points to do that. You are right to pick out poor performances and use them as criticism, however you are wrong to ignore performances good enough to beat good teams or simply dismiss them as 'should have been better'. IMO obviously and you are of course entirely entitled to yours

Someone summarised on here the other day and actually when you look back at our performances this season we've only looked great vs Saints. All the other games the performances have been sub-standard and we've ground out results. I'm all for teams been able to grind out the results but i'm also for seeing us develop into a side that can score some decent tries. We've not done that since Mcrae was here imo.

IMO Agar has shown very little ability to get a performance out of us same as Sharp before him. The only performances we get are when there are other factors involved like Long v Saints. I expect a performance in the derby because we have a number of 'cup final' style players. I just wish Agar could convince them to perform like every week was a cup final.

But without the performances you cant consistantly get the results

Did you read the follow up posts/discussion?

I 100% agree with you about consistency the two defeats against the 'lower' teams were unacceptable and down to attitude which is something in Agar's control. He should take responsibility for that if the players are not approaching the games correctly - it's down to him and them to rectify it.

I disagree that Saints has been our only good performance however. We have defended very well this season in the games we have won. That is half of what you need to do in a game to win it and we have done it well. We are currently 5th best at it despite the Wigan avalanche of points against. Players and coaches tell us that defence is mostly down to attitude so we have reached the required level at times. We are not really that bad at scoring points either - 4th best in the league in fact. Dismissing wins against teams of the calibre of Hudds Cas and Bradford as below par doesn't wash with me. Had they beaten us I am absolutely sure they wouldn't have dismissed the victories as sub standard in the same way you do. And I am more sure than ever that the level of vitriol on here would have gone through the roof.

We are scoring more points and conceding fewer than we did at any time last year. Consistency as you rightly say is the issue and if we don't find any Agar is in trouble. Were we to beat Wire on Monday he would rightly argue that we have been 100% consistent at home. It would probably be shot down as another sub standard performance but one thing's for sure a 100% home record would be a massive improvement on last year's offerings.

My main problem is the style of rugby, the only reason we look slightly bettre this season is because we have better personnel. Fitz - Radford at 13, O'Meeley - King at 10, Long - Thorman at 7 etc etc. We are still playing the same dour rugby we did last season. I know Horne and Long have not had much gametime together which hasn't helped but imo the two games we have lost in Wales and last Saturday was down to the players not being motivated and Agar has to take responsibility for that. We only seem to have a plan A, drive up the middle and then hope for a magic play from someone.

In terms of development, what is happening with Briscoe? If he is to become a centre than what are we doing to prepare him for this. Are we simply going to say next season, there you go Tom start in the centres, if so we might aswell do that now. Has he been spoken to regarding his positional play and his handling of kicks? I can't see no evidence of this. Why has no one worked with Yeaman with regards to how to put his winger away? Why is Hall still a poor defender? Why does Houghton seem no better than 2 years ago? These are issues that need working on because from what I can see players like Brown, Robinson, Griffen and Crabtree at Hudds along with Mossop, Tomkins and even Fielden at Wigan are showing big improvements to their game.

It's not all about Agar either, what is Moore bringing to the party?

Even if we finish in the top 6 I am still not convinced that Agar is the man to take us to the top and that is what we should be aiming for otherwise what is the point. I will still support hima nd the team 100% as he is doing a decent job I just think we deserve better than decent.

Did you retract that statement?

No i explained my rationale. Did you still not read it?

Yeah, but i'd still rather look bad and win than look good and lose

I would to some extent. But the more bad you look the more chance you have of losing over a lengthly period of time. I'd rather we focussed on performing rather than winning ugly and then i'm sure winning will come.