People are saying we will do well if Horne and Long stay fit, I'm not so sure in the case of Horne, he deserves time to find fitness and form and should be allowed to do this in his own time, you don't become a bad player overnight and we might see the best of him again, but when he has played he has been just as poor as Washbrook is there and Thorman was last year, we need to bring someone in to play 6 straight away, and then down the line Horne can try and win his place back.

This is not the first time I've posted a comment about Horne in this context - he was easily one of the better players at the start of the season before being injured (in my opinion of course)

I actually agree. He was awesome in the Wigan away game which is why it was such a shame he got injured. Since then however he has been varying levels of cack.

Had a good game in the Derby at home, wouldn't of won it without him

Also got consecutive motm awards not long after that. Then he came back and played injured before being out again.

When he was fully fit he looked very good.

There seems to be a lot of people who would just like to see a change in the style of rugby that we play and would be satisfied with that for next season. I totally disagree. Whilst I do agree we do not play attractive, expansive rugby, it is a results game. I would take a run in the challenge cup and an improvement in league position every season over a change in the style of play. We could be a team that throw the ball about with gay abandon and still win nothing



I am not overly fussed how attractive we have played if we have 2 more points in the bag.


Now, expectations for next season.......mmmmmmmm..............similar league position but a run to the latter stages of the CC as well.

The reason people (at least me anyway) are mostly hoping for a change in style is because regardless of the brand of rugby we play, we have neither the squad or coach to win anything. If we're not going to win anything, we might as well enjoy ourselves.

But the other thing is, if you cast your eye around SL, throwing the ball about seems to actually be linked to success. It's no coincidence that the top 4 play far better rugby than everyone else, and are streets ahead.

Although, given a different refereeing decision against Leeds, you would probably have to have limited the statement to the "top 3" because Leeds would have been 6th behind Huddersfield.

I see where you're coming from. However, I don't think anybody will have put (I have not read all 19 pages of this thread) that they expect to win the SL next season. I would like/expect to be in the mix for the top 4 and/or latter stages of the cup competition and I would take that ahead of just a mere change in brand of rugby being played.

I also do not think the top 4 are 'streets ahead'. We have been 4th for a large portion of the season for a start and only missed out in the last 2 games. Plus Huddersfield have shown that the top 4 are not streets ahead

Or rephrased to the 'big 4'. We would have still only just pipped them, and they were having a bad year by their standards whilst we're peaking. The also made the CC final in the same year, whilst we went out first round so only had the league to concentrate on.

I would also like to be in the mix for the top 4 again, but I don't think we will be. That's part of my point about the brand of rugby being linked to competitiveness. I honestly think that we overachieved with our approach to this season, if not the personnel we have. I therefore don't think we will do any better next season if we still have a dysfunctional attack.

In terms of consistency and still producing regularly in the big matches, the top 4 are still streets ahead IMO. If Hudds win again tonight, I'll possibly reconsider, but bear in mind that they flirted with going out at the first hurdle to Crusaders. A good win in one game at Warrington does not automatically put them on a par with the best.

We are?



Based on what criteria?

OK, maybe a slightly wrong choice of word, but based on recent years. I was making the point that had we finished above Leeds, it would be a blip for them whilst looking like a highpoint of recent years for us, so we wouldn't entirely justify being labelled one of the best 4 sides in the country.

Is there a regular top 4?? Neither Wigan or Warrington where there last season. Wigan only scraped there the season before with Warrington again nowhere and neither where top 4 the in 2007 either!!

Yet others that have made the top 4 in recent times include Huddersfield, Hull KR, Catalan, Bratfud and us. Therefore I only see a top 2 justifiably, that being Saints and Leeds, of which we were only 3 points behind Leeds and 8 points behind Saints this season. I really don't see much in it in all honesty which is why I can see us being in the mix for top 4 again next season.

My god, I cannot believe how much our expectations have fallen. Most fans seem content to think about our improvement from 13th to 6th. Why? How about our drop from 2nd to 13th. Two reasons:
A coach who is completely out of his depth and a CE who is a kid in a mans game.

Summary:
I have no expectations until both these two individuals are exposed for what they are. VERY LUCKY.

Rule - go find yourself a nice bank/building society to manage.
Agar - York Acorn need a coach

Last year I would have agreed about the top 2 point. However, IMO Wigan and Warrington's performances have been so far above most other teams' that they have catapulted themselves into that band. They are 5 and 3 wins better than 2/3rds of SL respectively, and 18 and 14 points difference better than all outside the top 5. This season, it would be fairer to say a top 3 outperforming the rest, but Leeds' consistent record means that you really can't discard them, as they are showing so far in the playoffs. As mentioned in a previous post, Hudds are probably the closest to claim to be in the top group's company.

I think next season will probably mirror this one .I'm more looking forward to big changes for 2012 season , New coach , New ideas and new halfback combination.