Probably postponed from lack of interest.

Some idiot who wanted to be 'in the know' broke the news on twitter forcing both clubs into a hurried and unplanned announcement.

The intention was to reveal a detailed and concise proposal however, as with most things in RL, someone could not keep their gob shut and the clubs were forced to act.

Can only be down to coaching at senior level?

Or they simply are and never will be good enough. I have my suspicions it's the former.

Mr Monkey lover said, [i[/i"

Aah!! a new poster

what a surprise not seen you on here before...welcome!

So you think someone blew the whistle did they, well perhaps its a good idea they did!! For many of us there is too much going on behind the fans backs these days, we are the stakeholders in all of this, the pay masters and the customers, everyone is entitled to an opinion informed or not, just as obviously you are! To announce it however the day after Wakefield (one of the worst performance I have seen for a few seasons) was marketing suicide and to think that it would be taken as good news short sighted to say the least.

If you think that 'a detailed and concise proposal' for this wonderful new dawn (one that whatever the 'detailed proposal' will see the first ever merger between the two Clubs in 150 years, which according to many Rovers fans 'in the know' has another agenda altogether) will ever be taken as a fine idea by the hundreds of fans who have been around Hull FC through thick and thin for decades and decades , then you should think again! They might just put up with it, (because they love Hull FC), but in a lot of cases for many of us it could well be a deal breaker.

Perhaps its a good idea that its out in the open. I should just let it unfold gently if I were the Clubs, vast swathes of us in the fan base are struggling with the idea already and with the way the team is going in the league at present, to force the issue on us by telling us its for our own good, could see Season ticket 'Armageddon'.

The fans who have issues with it will decide whether they can stomach a merger or not and do what they feel fit thereafter, but if anyone thinks this will increase season ticket sales next season and that the fans will come streaming back whoever we sign, then they should I believe, think again! In any case we are far from guaranteed that we will survive this season and we have to survive the rigours of the new league system first!

There is a difference between two clubs plotting to have the fans over and two clubs who were deep into negotiations onto the pros and cons of something which has now had to be rushed into thanks to someone who cant keep their mouth closed.

The club's had no intention of making an announcement after the Wakey game or any time soon because things are still being sorted out, it was forced upon them by the person who decided to start the rumour on social media. Had the denied this to plan it properly and then done it at a later date you would be suggesting they were liars. They cant win.

Take off your Black and White or Red and White specs for five minutes and think about it. Think about what people are saying. I have heard people commenting about Rovers stealing all of Hull's best kids. People suggesting this is Hudge's way of getting better facilities. People worrying about the poor kids who will now have to stay playing for Dockers on a Sunday because there are only half the amount of places available.

The fact is Rovers and Hull have academies that are full of kids that are not good enough. No where near good enough. They should still be playing for their Club side on a Sunday. By streamlining this into one venture, one set of players, one set of coaches, the biggest thing to benefit is the Hull Amateur league which will be 20 players a year better off and perhaps less likely to see teams folding left right and centre as they are now at the age of 14+.

No secrets are being shared other than youth development and in the long run that will benefit both first teams.

It might be a tough pill to swallow but if people waited and let things be explained to them properly when the time is right the whole situation might just be a little bit less of a big deal than people are making out.

If you think Hudgell or Pearson have any intention of merging the first teams, financially motivated or otherwise, then you are not as smart as I thought you were having read your articles for a long time.

You're missing the point. We want nothing to do with Hull KR. Not one thing.

It's obvious by your tone and patronising reply that you're viewing this from a Red and White perspective. I'd hazard a guess you're Grudgell himself. Shouldn't you be planning a 'no win no fee' rescue of one your players?

I couldn't be less 'Red and White' thank you, and as Hudgell is on his way back from Australia I would imagine posting on an internet forum is something of a difficulty for him.

Having 'nothing to do with Hull KR' is one thing but have you considered the benefits of being able to spend far more time and money on a select group of players and how that might help you in the long term?

You strike me as the type of guy who does not really think about the next 5 years and would just prefer Adam Pearson to spend a load of cash ala Warrington and hope it works?

I would urge you to wait until the official plans are in place, just have a look, and if you don't like the idea still you can carry out a dirty protest or whatever it is you are planning.

Two long thread and not a mention of saving money As far as I and it would appear many other fans are concerned then however it is put to us no merger with Hull KR will ever be seen as anything but a sell out.

You can say whatever you like and as I say the fans will in the end decide what they will do come season ticket time. You seem to be an insider in all of this and its nice to have an official line on things, however if you are from one of the Clubs then you will know, as I do that "No secrets are being shared other than youth development" is a bit rich. You also seem to have a detailed angle on Mr Hudgells movements.

The fact that someone leaked the information may have pre determined the spin that the Clubs were putting on the pill to try and make it all acceptable to us, but its nice to be informed before we get a 'finished article' at least! I will watch with interest when you decide the time is right to release all the information to us the fans. But for now, for once I guess its quite ironic that the customers ain't the last to know!! get used to it, I and probably hundreds of other FC are uneasy when it comes to doing anything with Hull KR!

You make your point very well, but your not convincing me.

I see no benefit to FC what so ever (apart from reducing cost for AP), and loads of benefit to KR who own academy was average at best.

AP says he's tried everything and need to reduce costs, well he hasn't tried everything - he hasn't tried a proven coach. And if he had we maybe might have had a little more success in cups and play offs, then the financial burden wouldn't be as bad?

I don't think AP needs to throw money around like you say, I think we have a decent squad and we have some good young talent coming through, the problem is the coaching.

Merging the academy won't solve that.

Grudge has had AP's pants down for me.

I want the owner to preserve our tradition, to safeguard our future and to keep our proud history in place.

This is about the last 150 years, not the next 5. I actually see benefits in sharing the facilities we have at BB with Rovers. But sharing player pools and 13 starting spots I do not.

Take a look at Leeds Rhinos and how they approach youth in the schools. The problem isn't finding talent in Hull, it's the route into the first team. Until we sort that out we're p*ssing in the wind. On that subject, just look at Logan's performance on Sunday, does that strike you as 'not good enough'?

The fact is I get that, I get all of it.

I happen to think Lee Radford will come good, but I understand why fans would be annoyed right now and this is a cherry on a very badly made cake. He is clearly not everyone's choice and may well lose his job soon.

However if you want to break it down what exactly is it that Hull KR will gain?

Bishop Burton? The college would have Rovers there in a flash if they wanted to, it is a huge facility which can easily hold all 3 clubs youth depts.

Coaches? Most of these coaches were appointed by Lee Radford and AP, does that not mean that whilst the first team may be stuttering its way through Super League like a car with flat tyres but they have identified the key areas's for future success and have put a team in place to try and replicate the way Wigan have produced a winning side through youth? Rovers coaches may not be as well known but given the improvement in their youth set up in recent years they are clearly capable and to my knowledge the coaching staff of the merged Academy will contain a mixture of both clubs staff.

Education and Welfare etc? I'm not sure if you're aware but virtually every Academy in Super League have open doors and coaches visit each all the time to exchange ideas etc. For me, anything other than tactics (which are usually sent down from above anyway) is quite open amongst clubs and often guided by the RFL too. A lot of the schemes such as Social media awareness, drugs, alcohol etc are RFL or external schemes open to all clubs so Rovers will be using the same people anyway.

Players? The current crop are ring fenced, the future players will be split by a draft, which ultimately gives them a 50% chance of getting a player, no different to now I suspect.

Had Rovers still been a Championship side I might see the point of people not wanting to share to benefit Rovers but I don't actually see too much for them to gain that Hull will lose.

But the current crop are not being shared and that starting 13 in the future would be just as likely be 7 Hull and 7 Rovers anyway so the chance of getting 3 or 4 of the best youngsters in Hull has not really changed.

There is no right and wrong here, all I am saying is that I think you should wait to hear more before kicking off about it. Not you personally but fans in general.

Both teams need the support of the fans at this critical point of the season, seems silly to be losing focus now. This will wait until November when we are all bored

Not going to go through all those points, its a much simpler question for me.

FC are already bringing through more young talent than KR, far more in fact. It does seem a lot of them struggle at senior level, again that's a coaching issue (LR?). But Some of them look like future stars, Shaul being an example.

So what are KR bringing to the table that will improve on that? That's the bit I can't get my head round, all I see is that in future it's likely we will have to share that young talent. KR may not be a championship side, but their current academy is far inferior to FC's, ask the RFL.

If have a business that makes £10 and you have one that makes £5 and we merge them so we get £7.50 each who's the winner?

Any way as you say, it will certainly keep interest up after the season has finished.

You make valid points and as I don't really follow Hull KR that closely I may be wrong but I am pretty sure they have brought about 7 or 8 players into the first team in the last couple of seasons and apart from that Latus kid, who I remember thinking was perhaps a joke that I didn't understand, most of them seem to do ok and play quite regular.

We could argue/discuss all night if this crop are better than the Hull players who have come through and again about those that are sat waiting, the fact is I dont think it is as one sided as you say.

I would also take with a pinch of salt anything the RFL are involved in. I can well imagine Hull FC deserve to score more than Rovers in the points system but I stopped worrying about anything the RFL put their mind to a long time ago. If it is as clear cut as scoring points there is a big problem. The only thing an academy should be scored on is how many quality players come through and play in SL or the Championship in my opinion.

I like your analogy at the end but how about this one.

You have two businesses that have running costs of £10 each per year.

Business A) brings in about £7 and is running at a loss.
Business B) brings in about £5 and is running at a loss.

These companies merge with an annual running cost of £10 and bring in £12.

Is that not better for everyone involved including the shareholders?

It seems to me the club are agitated that they've not been able to control how this has been portrayed. They certainly seem rattled.
The thing is, the spin is getting old now and the fans are tired of it.
The fact AP is surprised at the reaction shows me he doesn't really get it.
The clubs should be concentrating on engaging schools and the amateur game to bolster playing numbers from a younger age group.
Instead they've gone for short termism cost cutting and tried to dress it up as the best way forward.
Like I said on another thread, Rovers vote for the marquee rule, then scrap their academy to piggy back ours.
The club will plough on regardless, leaving supporters to vote with their feet next year.
Sad state of affairs in what should have been a special year.

How do you know that the new Academy is not going to be set up to work tirelessly with the amateur clubs, schools and colleges to make sure that the talent pool is nurtured from the very beginning and helped in every dept?

Unfortunately you don't, none of us do.

Everyone is jumping the gun and presuming Hudgell and Pearson are on the make or the take.

Plus, any academy players that do make it to the first team are soon scapegoated or stripped of their confidence then shipped out.
It's the pathway into the first team the club should be addressing and concerned about, but that would mean employing a competant coach.

No ones jumping the gun. The club have not had time to get their story straight and they're flapping about. Fans are not stupid saps that believe anything that emerges from James Clarks keyboard.
Pearson is getting into bed with an individual who would gladly put FC out of business if he could. And we're supposed to embrace it all and say nothing.
The fans are sick of it and the club will find that out when it's season pass renewal time .

I seem to be one of the few that find this a good thing.

Let me get the first thing off my chest: the "I don't want anything to do with Rovers" attitude is incredibly short sighted and smacks of cutting your nose off to spite your face. If there are benefits to our club from working with Rovers, then work with them. If we both get stronger, so what? I want to win trophies, not out do Rovers at all costs.

Secondly, "the way Leeds do it" by "getting into schools" is a good tactic in principle, but when you consider Leeds have a population three times the size of ours with no competition to share the fruits of their labour, you see the difference in strategy. Yes, there are local West Yorkshire clubs, but then they also have huge population areas themselves that they can target. We don't. Why would/should Hull FC invest a great deal of money into getting into schools only for Rovers to pick up the fruit of their hard work? Surely a joint concentrated effort from both clubs would be more efficient and spread the workload evenly?

If both clubs can work together on youth development (that being but only building up participation numbers but also athlete development) instead of against each other, we will both succeed? In fact there are a number of ways I'd like to see the clubs work together, particularly marketing. I loved the derby posters idea. If you look at the number of billboards City have around Hull advertising fixtures compared to ours, you can see where the sports fans of this city are more likely going to pay attention.

The real rival is football, not Rovers. Are we competing for the same fans? Not really. New fans, maybe, but then they're likely to go with the club most associated with them (depending on where they're from or who their friends/family support). Why not work together to bring out the dormant rugby league fans of this city (of which there are thousands) and target them rather than both fight over new fans?

Our rivalry on the field is unique, I'd never want it to go away. It's a huge selling point for both clubs. It doesn't mean we can't work together in other areas to improve both. Neither club are producing world class players. Something major needs to change. Throwing a contract at any old amateur to fill the academy is not only a waste of money but also not benefiting the top players at that age group. The best get better by training with the best, being trained by the bbest and playing against the best. Give it a chance.

Hopefully this new merged academy will also be heavily involved in schools development also.

Frightening really.

^
THIS

I see Peacock is behind the merger but when asked if this would work between other clubs , His answer was no , Kind of a strange answer . If it wont work with other clubs then why Hull .

Sharing facilities, non coaching backroom staff - Yes
Sharing coaching methodology/ideas, gaining better understanding/knowledge to advance the youth system and from that the 1st team & looking at ways to get more kids through so we have a greater pool of potentials- absolutely
Creating better links and more opportunities with local amateur clubs - for sure,
Cutting costs through sharing - Yes, no problem at all, in fact I'm surprised a facilities share hasn't being suggested a long time back.
However...
Merging teams to play with one single team, retrograde step, not to mention the massive fallout with regard the whole undermining of both clubs histories.
Merging on the basis of having more money per individual, greater pool of coaches NO, that's not how it works, quality not quantity! We often have some great kids come through, show huge promise, play at the top level for their age and then the transition is non-existant to pitiful with some players falling through the net completely and others working out just by sheer talent & dedication alone, not through excellent coaching!

We have not a single senior coach with a solid background of coaching experience at the top level under their belts and/or with experience away from the club. It's these differing experiences/environments that build you up, an essential part of learning your trade and allowing you to widen your understanding/knowledge base. To adopt certain strategies to cope with X scenario, learning skills from other senior coaches.
IMO the whole coaching set up at Hull is flawed and a 'merger' IMO will not resolve the issues we have.

I also think by using the word merger in itself instead of something less provocative could have lessened the effect even if the end result was going to be the same.
As it is the club have handled it pretty badly, whomever this so called 'blabbermouth' as Monkey Lover refers to them as obviously was in the loop with regard to proceedings. If the club/s didn't have a full plan and detailed information on exactly how it would work why even share it with people whom in reality aren't in the know. Keeping tabs on these things is essential, it would seem clear this person doesn't agree with the outline proposals hence piped up. Maybe a more defined/detailed plan could have helped them see this 'vision'...then again maybe it was just a load of old shiate anyway.

Too right. - How anyone can see positives coming our way from a deal brokered between
the devious `Hull FC hating' Hudge & the clueless, hapless Pearson is beyond me.

So has formal consultation started and if so when did the clock start?