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| Westy on Graham's shoulder for match winning try.
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| great piece of work by tomkins
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| Quite enjoying it.
Always good when you're a neutral.
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| Westy picked in the squad on the back of a good year at Hull where he played as a ball playing loose forward.
Instructed to play today almost like an extra prop. There are probably another 5 or 6 (maybe even more) English players in the league good enough to do the task that Westy was given today. Think McNamara should have let Joe do what he does best, and what he has been doing all year.
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| We don't know he was instructed to play that way!
Agree but Westerman needs to have it in him to stamp that into his game at this level, like O'Loughlin does. Still early in his international career.
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| Quote ="Rupert Pupkin"We don't know he was instructed to play that way!'"
We don't, but the fact that at one point we had two Burgesses and Hill on, and a Burgess Hill Graham combo suggests the coach went for three props as part of his approach, so a ball player at 13 seems odd
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| I prayed McNamara would use Westy as an extra pivot. You know, what he's been doing fantastically well for us all year.
But no, he seemed to employ him as an extra front-man, which is not his game at all.
Disappointed, but not at Joe. He gave it his all.
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| can't see either of those 2 troubling us.
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| Quote ="Chris28"We don't, but the fact that at one point we had two Burgesses and Hill on, and a Burgess Hill Graham combo suggests the coach went for three props as part of his approach, so a ball player at 13 seems odd'"
So why start Westerman in the first place?
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| Quote ="Rupert Pupkin"So why start Westerman in the first place?'"
why pick joel tomkins over whitehead?
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| New zealand thrashed the aussies 30-12 and they were lucky it wasnt more.The aussies looked bang average with all the enforced changes,we actually have a chance against them this year.
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| Quote ="Rupert Pupkin"So why start Westerman in the first place?'"
Because he's the best 13 in the squad after sick note. We were sucked into a forward battle (which is what Samoa told us they would do) and we fell for it. It then required us to have in effect 3 possibly 5 props on the field. Not Westy's style (as proven under Gentle) and he was therefore in effective in the end.
We need to learn to dictate play not the opposition. Keep discipline and learn to hold the ball. Oh and while we are at it get a full back who can catch the ball.
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"why pick joel tomkins over whitehead?'"
Cause McNamara is clueless!
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| Quote ="@airlie_bird"Because he's the best 13 in the squad after sick note. We were sucked into a forward battle (which is what Samoa told us they would do) and we fell for it. It then required us to have in effect 3 possibly 5 props on the field. Not Westy's style (as proven under Gentle) and he was therefore in effective in the end.
We need to learn to dictate play not the opposition. Keep discipline and learn to hold the ball. Oh and while we are at it get a full back who can catch the ball.'"
But if his intentions are to play a huge pack then going with Westerman to start at 13 is ridiculous, like you point out, it's not his game. I'm a fan of Westerman, think he is a good player but he has to play as a ball handling LF to be effective.
As for the Aussies, one thing you can pretty much be certain on, they won't play that badly again next week.
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| Quote ="deslawson"New zealand thrashed the aussies 30-12 and they were lucky it wasnt more.The aussies looked bang average with all the enforced changes,we actually have a chance against them this year.'"
they definately miss thurstan and cherry evans seems to have gone backwards this season. they will still be a formidable challenge but i was encouraged at how easily NZ made ground through their forwards. proctor had a great game
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| I think McNamara should build the England team around westerman, who's was good for hull last season in a poor team!!! Get a grip people, for me totally summed up westerman today's performance, decent player, never be anything more
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| Westerman made 33 tackles in hat, about what 40 minutes of play with 6 runs for 60metres and no errors aside from a missed tackle maybe?
So on that I'd say he was totally used as a prop, a stopper down the middle. Macbanana is clueless, it was so obvious we had them on the outside which Westerman could have being instrumental in but no..we just tried the crash bang stuff. I've never seen such a poor attacking side in years..
Westerman is being bagged but tbh whilst he hasn't set the world alight, he poked his nose through a few times he did very very little wrong in his first international outing after not playing for the best part of two months..
J Tomkins and Ferres need dropping if you ask me.
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| I think many forget that Samoa are no mugs , this was never going to be a walk over. To many mistakes and discipline made it tougher but they got the win and thats what matters .
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| Quote ="Rupert Pupkin"But if his intentions are to play a huge pack then going with Westerman to start at 13 is ridiculous, like you point out, it's not his game. I'm a fan of Westerman, think he is a good player but he has to play as a ball handling LF to be effective.
As for the Aussies, one thing you can pretty much be certain on, they won't play that badly again next week.'"
I think you miss understand me. I don't think it was Maccas intention initially, but we got sucked into it. Hence he took Westy off and went down the middle. If the off load in front of their sticks to Smith had come off we would have been praising a mom performance IMHO. It didn't and we went into our shell which required far too many props and a complete lack of inventiveness. All Smith did was kick. Widdop did very little on attack and Tomkins was in effective all round. All be it Martyn Sadler claimed his try was a brilliant piece of inventive play (see is tweet).
The only true zip and spark we got was from Clark. First touch of the ball creates a try and then went into his shell.
It was negative all round. If we had used the ball out wide the Samoans were there for the taking, but we decided on a forward battle.
That said we could not under estimate the Samoans who have a wealth of NRL experience, but we should have been a lot smarter, starting with our pivots spreading it wide.
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| Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"Westerman made 33 tackles in hat, about what 40 minutes of play with 6 runs for 60metres and no errors aside from a missed tackle maybe?
So on that I'd say he was totally used as a prop, a stopper down the middle. Macbanana is clueless, it was so obvious we had them on the outside which Westerman could have being instrumental in but no..we just tried the crash bang stuff. I've never seen such a poor attacking side in years..
Westerman is being bagged but tbh whilst he hasn't set the world alight, he poked his nose through a few times he did very very little wrong in his first international outing after not playing for the best part of two months..
J Tomkins and Ferres need dropping if you ask me.'"
Fair summary.
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| Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"Westerman made 33 tackles in hat, about what 40 minutes of play with 6 runs for 60metres and no errors aside from a missed tackle maybe?
So on that I'd say he was totally used as a prop, a stopper down the middle. Macbanana is clueless, it was so obvious we had them on the outside which Westerman could have being instrumental in but no..we just tried the crash bang stuff. I've never seen such a poor attacking side in years..
Westerman is being bagged but tbh whilst he hasn't set the world alight, he poked his nose through a few times he did very very little wrong in his first international outing after not playing for the best part of two months..
J Tomkins and Ferres need dropping if you ask me.'"
No errors except a poor offload that led to another players' error.
International LF is a different position than Super League LF. Watch how Greg Bird plays.
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| Quote ="Wigg'n"No errors except a poor offload that led to another players' error.
International LF is a different position than Super League LF. Watch how Greg Bird plays.'"
Oh wow, so you think listening to the commentary and repeating it makes any valid point whatsoever...it doesn't.
Greg Bird can afford to play the way he does because he has had for the most part top quality halves and pivots that can get the ball to where its needed..we don't. And frankly one badly executed offload that didn't come off doesn't validate the original comment made or have you only been watching rugby for 5 minutes??
I'd rather watch someone make attempts like that than crash bang boring wallop down the middle with a micturate poor kick chase for 70 minutes until your opposition flag and you get them out wide/find gaps down the middle. That's all that happened Saturday. It was obvious they were going to run out of gas before us but frankly it was as dull as dishwater, predictable and the attacking lines were truly shocking.
the Kiwis will smash us to pieces on that showing.
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| Western an starting against the convicts on sunday
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| Quote ="Wigg'n"No errors except a poor offload that led to another players' error.
International LF is a different position than Super League LF. Watch how Greg Bird plays.'"
Greg Bird gave away a couple of cheap penalties that are more a cardinal sin than trying a difficult offload.
As Noble said. The offload was worth the risk given the state of play and position on the field.
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| Bird doesn't play loose man for GC and is only playing there due to Gallen's ban. Comparison is pointless.
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