I agree, but I think calls of getting rid are way too over dramatic. He does need to make improvements to his game, but he's young enough and good enough for it to be worth giving him that chance. People make out he's awful or ordinary, and he's really not. He's very good with a few mistakes at times, but just because we paid a fee for him some seem to think that if he's not flawless every game it isn't a good enough return.

It's always the case on here Carl, I actually fear some posters safety, I've never seen mood swings like it.

Totally agree with the rest of your post.

We paid a fee for him to change and inspire our side, he's done nothing of the sort and looks disinterested to me.

Take McGoldrick out of the team, how many tries would we have scored?

Agree with the above, except I'd hate to see Horne play elsewhere.
Been waiting for 2 years for Westerman to live up to the hype, but all I can see is the occasional piece of flash play in attack and a very dumb and physically weak defender.

I agree he has a good rugby brain, but in defence he is slow and tonight he spent more time chatting to Ganson or having handbags with Widnes than actually playing.

Did we? Was that in the press release?

We paid a fee to secure him the year before he was out of contract and other clubs would likely step in. He looked top notch in the 2nd half of last season, and despite what some claim on here has had some good games this year, but he does seem to struggle for the first few games when coming into the side, which isn't helped by injuries.

Accusations of being disinterested are also unfair, his work ethic and vocalness have been there for all to see if you want to see it. The quality of his play has sometimes let him down, but not his willingness. Not at all.

The fact that we have worse options does make him good enough for where we're supposed to be aiming.

Class!

Turner - goes without saying, also he is leaving any way so thats good

Seymour - I've defended him at times but feel that with what AP has said and the act he has played most games and not really shown a lot doesn't make me look to him for big plays when we need them

Horne - he won't be our half back next year, while Shannon McDonnell is no Wade Mckinnon he has played full back most of his carrer, is younger and should be (hopefully) fitter than Horne. the only way i see Horne playing next year is if he does what Lee Radford has done this year. would rather keep McGoldrick as cover because he is quicker and stronger than Horne

O'Meley - more to do with his age and now seems to be picking up injuries a bit more. if he did sign again suspect would only be one year on reduced terms. he would be missied but hes been missed most of this year

Players I'd not drive to a club just yet but would understand why

Sharp - vast improvement on last year and if it is Jason Crookes coming is he a better player, I'm not sure yet, yes Lineham looks comfortable at Super League level but we need cover

Aspinwall - very reliable at working hard playing well, team can't all be susperstars, we need a couple of players that don't do anything fancy, just drive and tackle hard.

Tickle - this is more about him going now or next year. yes he is going back either this year or next, yes the money from Widnes would help but we would be losing a great player and just feel that we should keep him till he sees out his contract

I know i'm gonna get shot down on some of these, but thats just my opinion

No mood swing re Westerman here I will praise when a player plays well and criticise when, over a period of time, they don't reach the standards required for our team. To my mind Westerman has had maybe two possibly three decent games this season. The rest of the time he has been error prone, particularly in defence but also with his option taking. So based on the season I'd be interested to know what parts of his game can be classed as consistently good because I have seen all games this year and I don't recall (save for one or two) thinking afterwards that he has had a good game.

Hull's problem has been for years having too many players in various positions that are unable to reach the required standard over the period they are playing both during in a game, and from game to game. Westerman on this year's form epitomises that in my opinion (there are a number of others as well across the team). Our second row tonight was shocking and he was a part of it. He should be dominating the edge against a bottom of the league side but like Manu at the other side was totally dominated by them.

I'm not saying get rid - but I am wondering when exactly when I'm going to see him reach anything like a consistent level required for a top end team.

To be honest, I wouldn't keep Sharp.
Yes he has improved massively, however surely the main judgement of a winger is how many tries they score? Sharon has played something like 16 games with a return of only 3 tries. Quite poor for a winger, especially one who we all view as massively improved.
I do realise thigh that this could be the fault of poor centre play not giving him the opportunity.
Lineham has played 4 (?) games this year and already has a return of more tries than Sharp and looked more threatening in attack.
I just can't see us keeping him.

I wouldn't personally drive him to a new club though (the main reason being that I don't drive). I would at least give him taxi fare.

I wish he'd been awful defensively when he put Peter Fox into touch at the KC. You guys know a lot more about Tom Briscoe than I do, but whilst perhaps not been an outstanding player in every aspect of the game he seems to me to be a very very good player currently playing out of position due to an injury crisis (but like a good professional, has done what his coach has asked of him). Criticism of him then having a bad game in this unfamiliar position just seems overly harsh to me. Admittedly you do watch him play much more often than I do.

Was getting MOM votes for most on here when he played full back this season, but I admit he is starting to look done.

Completely disagree.

Definatley surprised me. Would be good squad player to cover halves and FB, but no where near starting.

Yep. Been awful since he has been confirmed he's off.

Was encouraged at first, but has gone majorly downhill and seems to be going through the motions now.

It's okay, Ellis will be here next season!!!

And all will be well with the world

Horne and Turner.

Horne because he's done absolutely feckall in years yet still gets his shirt back. Fast becoming a player I'd happily drop off at Rovers. Can someone PLEASE tell me what he brings to this team, because I haven't a clue.

Saints fans must be deparing after watching Turner tonight and to them I say, "He doesn't get much better than that."

Looks like Hermaia's carrying extra weight too; It's called Seymour. Probably the worst halfback since Tommy Lee. Give him to Widnes for the 50k they offered for Tickle.

Some people need to get a grip.

Sam Tomkins
I'd drive him right up to the KC pitch

He's a decent SL player. The hype he's got with claims from some that he'd walk into any NRL team etc is why he gets the stick he does when he performs poorly. In reality he has a long way to go to become world class , ie , good enough to get a game in the NRL , but in the meantime he will now always be judged against that standard which is tough.

Pack is fine.

Backs and mainly the halfbacks is where we have major problems.

Briscoe and Horne aren't good enough at FB.

Foster is awful. now Sharp is back I would send Foster back, forget his kicking we cant carry a player just for that, we might as well have Paul Eastwood back on the wing if this is the case.

Turner, poor player, very weak in defence and does lots of stupid things in attack.

Crooks, reminds me of Craig Hall at the same age, looks an exciting talent, but a little weak and a bit naive with the ball in hand, hopefully he will improve and become a better player than Hall, but don't think he is quiet ready yet, a good off season will do him good.

Mcgoldrick, better than I thought and shows some nice touches with the ball, but too undisciplined, defence is a concern and not good enough for the halfback position.

Seymour, I quiet liked at the start of the season and stuck up for him a few times this year, but has been awful in recent games and cant hardly remember him touching the ball last night.

For next season the key is getting two good (don't have to be great) halfbacks or the team will be the same next year.

You're right there - most of them are players though.

If anyone thinks players are not trying they need to give their heads bang.

I think on the whole the players are trying, especially the front row forwards. Most of the problems are down to either poor application or plain and simple lack of ability.

Someone said that to me in pub . I don't think that there not trying its just that there not good enough .

I'm not sure where that many people have accused the players of lack of effort ? The odd one maybe. Besides which effort isn't just physical it's mental and it's the mental aspect in particular where I think a large number of our players including some of our 'stars' fall down badly. It's why we're so inconsistent and have been for a number of years. Last night we played the bottom of the league and were, by the 80th minute, beaten all ends up in the pack, halves and three quarters. Mental preparation doesn't start ten minutes before the game starts it starts when the previous game finishes and I'm not sure just how well prepared some of our players were to play that game last night.

In any case when our coach is visibly angry and calls the performance "an embarrassment", "the worst performance I've seen at pro level for a long time", "unacceptable" etc and that the staff had tried to avert problems caused by a perceived poor attitude during the week's preparation, then it would seem inevitable to me that fans' reaction would be along those lines also. Or do you think Gentle needs to give his head a bang as well ?