The shoulder charge is a big risk play, if you get it wrong you can seriously hurt someone and you deserve a ban.

In football a player can get penalised for putting his head in a dangerous position, it's a different sport.

He made [idirect[/i contact to the head. Nobody is on about banning anything. If you're going to tackle like that, don't make contact with the head, pretty simple really.

So how does not making contact with the shoulder make it worse? If EVERY tackle which hits the head results in a ban then fine, but does anyone see that happening?

Shoulder charges aren't illegal.

If the boot was on the other foot and Lauaki had made that tackle on Westerman, our fans would have gone mental.

Disappointed all the replays where in slow motion, would have liked to have seen it again at full speed.
Westy did lift his arm slightly which was silly on his part but I'm not a fan of banning players for making contact with the head if it isn't deliberate.
If someone try's to knock a players head off with a straight or swinging arm then they deserve to be punished.
However our sport is played at a fast pace & like it or not players tackle with shoulders & every now & then accidents will happen.
If there is no intent to harm I dont think the player should be banned.
On another note I think Westy's defence in the last couple of rounds has been very poor. Dobbo picked him out twice in the derby & last night I thought he was to blame for the first two tries. Although I do know he's injured

I think to play this sport when you arnt 100% is madness, its hard and brutal, yet some of these boys pull on that shirt and put thier bodies on the line for us, the fans. Then we moan and groan when they play sh88e, if we knew half of what went on we probably wouldn't be as quick to judge.

TBH after watching over and over it is not his shoulder or elbow that makes contact with Luaukis head but the area of his bicep/tricep. Also his head jolts forward due to Nicklas tackling and stopping him in his tracks. He will problem get a match ban & I think that would be harsh.

Don't think it warrants a ban but he'll probably get one. lauaki makes contact with his bicep which is nowhere near as bad as the shoulder or the forearm

Just out of curiosity, those saying Westerman should get a ban or castigating him for the tackle, are these the same people who thought Ogre was a hero for throwing a ridiculous haymaker last week? Or Radford for getting sent off throwing punches at Bailey? Just asking like.

Another correct answer.

You'll have to explain how hitting him with his arm is worse than the shoulder.

Nobody complained about the hit he put on Mossop 5 minutes later, which was completely the same, except Mossop wasn't ducking to get his forearms in to Nicklas' head.
Are we seriously going to hang him out to dry because Lauaki ducked at the last minute?

Not sure it needs explaining really, it's quite self-explanatory.

I do think your judgement is being clouded by the fact it's Westerman too. I doubt you'd be defending anybody else as much.

Westerman is one of the biggest wastes of money we have done.

Hitting them with the arm being worse than the shoulder isn't self explanatory. Maybe you can't?
He'll get banned because he made contact with the head, no doubt. But hitting him with his bicep isn't as bad as the shoulder.

What about the hit on Mossop?

Another one that doesn't understand Westerman's role in the team, most likely.

What a load of rubbish.

If your going into a tackle with a shoulder charge your expecting to make upper body contact however you still have a level of responsibility to keep that hit and legal. It could be mistimed and that would work in his favor as opposed to against him.

If you have a head high shot using your arm then it can be deemed you have gone with intent to injure the opposition. They should be no reason for a defender to have his arm anywhere near an opponents head or shoulder area. If they did, this is a poor tackling technique and will eventually cause injury therefore it is far worse then a mistimed shoulder charge.

Stop trying to make out like your some sort of RL guru because you really are not, you are wrong in so many threads it is unreal. Please do not try to be somebody of higher knowledge, you really are not.

I am sure Westermans role in the team is not to miss tackles, give away stupid penalties, throw out ridiculous passes in your own half. He has gone so far backwards since his debut year its astonishing. I hear this is the general vibe behind the scenes too.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Westerman leave before / at the end of his current contract.

He isn't smart enough.

Westy went to put the same hit on Lauaki as he did later on Mossop, the difference being that Lauaki lowered his body to impact on Nicklas. Westy is unable to react to that in such a short time.
If these are going to end in bans, you may as well outlaw it altogether. Next thing we'll be rucking.

You're supposed to tackle with your shoulder, is it really that hard to understand? Deary me.

Look at the GI hit from the other week. If that hit was with the shoulder, he wouldn't have been banned for as long. Same as Webb the other night, if puts his shoulder in there rather than lifting his arm then the ban isn't as severe. When have you ever been able to strike with the arm, out of interest?

Don't recall the hit on Mossop, would have to see it again.

So Westerman's the only one who misses tackles? O'Meley and Manu both missed tackles that led directly to tries. You're just another poster who likes to bag Westerman at every opportunity because we paid a fee and he's not single handedly winning us games.
Comments like 'the biggest waste of money ever' just make you look more stupid than I ever could.

As with the Moa incident, it is his responsibility to make sure he does not take the opponents head off. Even if the opposition player has lowered the body.

You're massively overplaying Lauaki's role in this. How many players in RL run in with a straight back? As a defender, you know full well the opposition are likely to be leaning forward. You then alter your body position/tackling technique accordingly. It's the responsibility of the defender to ensure he doesn't go high.

He led with the shoulder, obviously. If he'd raised his arm I'd agree, but it wasn't a swinging arm. If his shoulder had made direct contact with his head it would have been far worse. It was clumsy, but I don't see how he can react to Lauaki ducking down in that time.

Do you really believe this ?

When you spend big money on a player you expect a return and we are not getting that. How many world class games has Westerman had for us whilst he has being here ? How many times has Westerman done something which has wowed us ?

He is done neither, he is going backwards. Ask Cas fans if they are bothered he left them. His stats considering he has missed half a season are embarrassing.